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 > A bit of a shock at the weigh scale/trip report...

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Country Traveler

All over the Country

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Posted: 07/10/08 11:32am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

surveyorjp wrote:

fpresto wrote:

MikeRP wrote:

Dodge has way underrated their trucks.

Mike , what are you basing this on? I see this posted all of the time for every manufacturer and on the face of it it makes no sense at all. The manufacturers are in a war with each other to have the highest load/towing capacity in class, just look at the commericals. The thought that Dodge would intentionally de-rate their truck makes no sense.



Well the thing is, in many cases the weight ratings that Dodge places on its vehicles is purely for a performance standpoint, not a safety one. I can give you two examples to back this up.

Here is a quote from the OP's post......

"The GCW was 18800#. This is 2800# over GCWR for my 2002 Dodge/Cummins automatic, but would be 1200# under GCWR for the same truck equipped with a 5 or 6 speed stick with the same engine. I guess the auto trans is the limiting factor there. Mine is still working great despite the extra power I've added, and the heavy loads."

See, the same truck equipped with the manual transmission has a higher GCWR. The ONLY factor is performance and perhaps longevity because the truck whether auto or stick has the same size brakes, axles, suspensions, etc. It can haul the higher load safely, but perhaps not as fast or not as long without a breakdown of the weak point which is the transmission.

Another example, on a 2004 Dodge Dakota. A truck equipped with a 3.92 rear axle ratio has around 1000 lbs higher tow rating than the exact same truck with a 3.55 ratio. The brakes and suspensions are the same, the engine is the same and other than the gears, the axles are the same. So obviously, a 3.55 truck can safely haul the same as a 3.92 equipped truck, but may not perform as well as the other.

There are many other cases where some of the Dodge ratings are questionable. If you take the rating of each component and add it up, the truck can haul more than they claim. I think they like to play it very safe with the weight ratings perhaps to void warranty issues on heavily loaded vehicles or maybe for other reasons that we are unaware of.

I am sure there are examples of this with other manufacturers as well.


I tend to somewhat agree to a point. May I add that regarding the gear ratio aspect, a higher gear ratio will help power the truck off the line from a stop. Once moving, the same power exists for a given RPM regardless of gears, but a different speed comes along with the change. This is also simply a performance issue.

campingrandma

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Posted: 07/10/08 12:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

That may be true, but performance (which is really, in the case above, about the design of the drivetrain and its ability to handle the stress of towing and not really about performance) is only PART of the equation. How many folks run overloaded tow vehicles and then complain when they have major drivetrain or other failures prematurely and then want to say that "insert name of automaker here" built a piece of junk? There are many reasons to limit the tow rating of a vehicle and all those reasons COMBINED is what sets the limit.

ib516

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Posted: 07/10/08 01:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

LarryJM wrote:



Not only is the trailer over it's GVWR according to the specs for the 2004 model year the 301BHS came with 222R75x15"C" rated tires. These should be rated at 2150lbs each for a total of 8600. It you got the "D" rated that take 65psi vice 50 then the capacity is 10,160. Also, you need to make sure your not over the FAWR or RAWR on the plate on the front drivers side front of the trailer.

Larry

Totally agree Larry, nice catch. However, my trailer came with 225/75/15 tires, but they were load range "D" and I inflate them to the max of 65psi, and check them often. I have had a few tire failures (due to misaligned axles which I have remedied), and that causes a lot of collateral damage (fenders and fender supports damaged). Going by memory, but I think the new tires I have are also LR "D" and have a capacity of 2450# each @ 65psi.

* This post was edited 07/10/08 01:22pm by ib516 *


2004 Cougar 301 BHS 6580# Dry, 9000# wet, 9600# GVWR)
2007 Dodge/5.9L Cummins 3500 SRW Megacab 4x4/3.73
Hypertech Max Energy
"MEGACASPER" 10100# GVWR, 5200# FGAWR, 6200# RGAWR
PICTURES
ELIM 3000 Gen (still going)
Collision Reconstructionist
ScanGauge2


ib516

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Posted: 07/10/08 01:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MikeRP wrote:

You are within your axle weight ratings on the truck so why are you concerned? You went through some demanding terrain with no problem. I'd quit worry"in.

And if you are worried about your new MegaCab.....don't. Dodge has way underrated their trucks. As long as you don't exceed your rear tire ratings - and their is a fix for that on a SRW - you can haul amazing weights with these trucks. With an exhaust brake, 19.5 inch wheels and maybe some upgrades to the brakes, I think you could easily see a GCVWR of 26000 lbs.

Mike

I'm not really "worried", I guess I was just a bit shocked at how much or little you pack over the course of a few days getting ready for a trip can really add up. I also wanted to comment on how the set up performed at the weight it was at.

My current truck's payload is right around 2000# (6800# curb, 8800# GVWR). So the Megacab 3500 4x4 diesel SRW's ~7300# curb weight and 10,100# GVWR gives me about 2800# payload from what I've read.

MikeRP

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Posted: 07/10/08 01:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hey folks: I appreciate all your thouights. Some of you question my qualifications and rightly so. I am an engineer and I have spec'd purchased and operated many types of heavy equipment. I feel the original poster is very informed and concerned about the right issues. I agree SAFETY is paramount. You can have small load and be unsafe as I was almost killed by an empty horse trialer on a brand new F350 that came off the ball right next to me. I do believe as others have suggested that some of the specs are performance related and could be exceeded by an informed person. Certainly, all this is either mechanically or safety wise should be carefully considered and only exceeded after much thought and at your own risk. Any load should be setup by a professional.

However, as I said before, these trucks are very safe capable vehicles. Exceeding tire ratings and Emergency stopping are my primary concerns.

I persoanlly think these debates are good because irt allows everyonew to understand their trucks better and that is the key to hauling safely. Mike

Kennedycamper

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Posted: 07/10/08 01:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gonna get rid of the 02 huh. I run about the same weight as you, but have a little more on the rear axel. I have a little less on the trailer axels. I have the 6 speed, and 20k GCWR. I stay under the GCWR & GAWR. I think they are the most important. I hope you like the new 07 when you get it. I don't put enough miles on mine now to justify a new one. I wouldn't take a 6.7 though. I would trade up to a new 5.9 if money was no biggie. Have fun on your trip. And yes Dodge/Cummins 3/4 tons are under rated. If you have the "camper Package" with a diesel in an 01 or 02 you basically got a 1 ton SRW. They didn't label or make a 1 ton SRW untill 03.

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