GM 36.71% (549,197 units)
Ford 29.91% (447,513 units)
Toyota 15.53% (232,339 units)
Dodge 13.10% (196,058 units)
Nissan 4.73% (70,773 units)
At least Nissan is keeping Dodge off the bottom.
I could see GM keeping the cummins around for MDT applications but the new technology GM and others are working on will be the power plants for the LDTs.
2006 2500HD CC SB 4X4 Duramax/Allison
Prodigy/16K Reese/265E Tires/Bilstein Shocks
RM Active Suspension/RDS 60gal Toolbox combo
jmramiller wrote: When you look at how many GM trucks are sold compared to how many dodge trucks are sold, I think it is a no brainer that if this merger were to take place the dodge body and interior would be a thing of the past. Given the new technology going into diesel engines I'm not even sure they would continue to use the cummins (if they did it would probably be special order only).
The hemi would probably continue. Not sure if any of the small dodge cars would make the cut (IIRC dodge has done such a poor job with the small car that they were looking to Nissan to help them out - not that GM has done much better in that area). I would look to GM bring in some of it's internationally built platforms for the small car market.
If your opinion were to come to pass, I would become a Ford man. The Silverado in its current form is absolutely hideous. The GMC Sierra is much better. GM would be foolish to ignore the fans of the Dodge Ram altogether and they know that. That is over 200,000 trucks per year that Dodge sells. Dodge Rams outsell GMC Sierra by a large margin, currently over 60,000 trucks year to date. The better plan would be to combine the GMC and Chevy trucks into one line (using the GMC front clip) and then also sell the Dodge brand trucks as well. The combined sales of GM and Dodge trucks would be the best way to take over the pickup truck market. And to abandon the very popular Cummins could turn out to be suicide. If Ford were to get the Cummins, they would sell like mad.
It would not be in GM's best interest to follow your line of thinking, but GM apparently hasn't always followed the best lines of thinking anyway from the way they are struggling. Of course, Ford and Dodge haven't been proven to be geniuses either.
Also, the story has made it to www.allpar.com now. Read about it HERE.
Your thinking is what has the auto industry where it is today. The cummins will be obsolete when the new diesel technology is released. The dodge Ram is on it's death bed. Sales numbers don't lie. If the GMC is so much better than the Silverado then why are so many more Silverado's sold? Your line of thought is typical to the diehard dodge fan who is also on a death bed.
Ram sales are down by 29% YTD. That is 2% more than Ford, 6.5% more than Silverado, 14% more than Sierra, 8.5% more than the Tundra. So I can see why someone who is hanging on so tightly to a Dodge would move to the next biggest loser this year in the Ford.
What makes these numbers really remarkable is the fact that a dodge can be purchased for so much less than a Ford or Chevy and they still can't sell them. Says a lot about what the general public thinks about dodge.
Your line of thinking is typical of a GM blinder loyalist who doesn't see the reality of the fact that even with Dodge sales being down this year (which is to be expected with the oldest product on the market) they are still selling over 200,000 trucks this year. To completely drop a product still that popular with be foolish at best, and complete financial suicide at worst. You can bank on the majority of those 200,000+ truck sales going to Ford if GM were to drop the Dodge Ram, especially if they were to get the Cummins engine which is still the best diesel engine in a pickup period. I also fail to see how Cummins is so technologically behind, when it currently is the only pickup engine emissions compliant beyond 2010. Hopefully GM is smarter than you appear to be.
I however like to focus on the reality of the fact that there is a market for both Dodge and GM trucks. Like I said before, you can market the GM line of trucks to the typical recreational user as a more upscale line of trucks with their softer ride and such, and market the Dodge line as the work/utility type pickup with the rugged Cummins engine and stouter suspensions. Throw the luxuries and fancy options on the GM trucks to compete against the Ford King Ranch type trucks, and beef up the Dodge even further to compete against Ford's Tow Boss type trucks. They could possibly eliminate the Dodge 1/2 ton, and take some of the excellent features of the current 09 Dodge Ram 1500 and apply them to the GM 1/2 tons. Have the Dodge brand focus on 3/4 ton and up, take the interiors and body panels off of the 09 Dodges and put them on those heavy duty Dodges, and offer a base Hemi and of course the optional Cummins. With that formula, GM/Chrysler would completely dominate the pickup truck market. Of that I am sure.
* This post was
edited 10/11/08 04:06pm by surveyorjp *
2005 Surveyor SV-291 Tows smooth as silk!
1995 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie SLT 4x4 5.9L V8 low miles, It ain't pretty, but it's paid for!
GM 36.71% (549,197 units)
Ford 29.91% (447,513 units)
Toyota 15.53% (232,339 units)
Dodge 13.10% (196,058 units)
Nissan 4.73% (70,773 units)
At least Nissan is keeping Dodge off the bottom.
I could see GM keeping the cummins around for MDT applications but the new technology GM and others are working on will be the power plants for the LDTs.
Not sure where you get your numbers, but Toyota hasn't sold that many Tundras. I guess you combined the Tacoma numbers into the Toyota truck total, but failed to combine the Dakota numbers into the Dodge trucks. Using that method, you would have to combine all light trucks together to get a fair comparison.
Here are the ACTUAL year to date numbers for specific trucks from www.pickuptruck.com ..
"Ford F-Series
392,698 -26.9% YTD
September 2008: 32,727
September 2007: 56,065
Chevrolet Silverado
370,502 -22.5% YTD
September 2008: 50,428
September 2007: 52,480
Dodge Ram
196,058 -29.0% YTD
September 2008: 20,812
September 2007: 30,100
GMC Sierra
133,811 -14.9% YTD
September 2008: 18,744
September 2007: 18,445
Toyota Tacoma
117,313 -13.4% YTD
September 2008: 9,176
September 2007: 13,996
Toyota Tundra
115,026 -20.4% YTD
September 2008: 7,696
September 2007: 19,571
Ford Ranger
54,815 -4.6% YTD
September 2008: 3,915
September 2007: 4,019
Chevrolet Colorado
44,884 -24.2% YTD
September 2008: 3,359
September 2007: 5,598
Nissan Frontier
40,873 -19.4% YTD
September 2008: 1,534
September 2007: 5,480
Nissan Titan
29,900 -41.3% YTD
September 2008: 2,872
September 2007: 5,193"
You will note that the Dodge Ram is still a strong seller in 3rd place behind the Ford and Chevy trucks. The GMC sierra is over 60,000 units Behind the Dodge.
My suggestion to use the GMC was for looks alone, and not based on sales numbers. I personally find the current Chevy truck front hideous, and find the GMC version more visually appealing. But perhaps GM would be wise to keep the Silverado I don't know. I always thought the only reason the Chevy out sold the GMC was due to lower prices and the Chevy name. I feel if you put the GMC body work on the Chevy, it would still sell well, and maybe even better. But that's just speculation on my part.
Another important note is that the current Dodge 4500/5500 trucks are selling well and even took Ford's top spot in that market for a few months. GM doesn't even compete in that market at all. Again this would show that using the Dodge trucks as the work/utility type line would be a wise move.
Well I hope the Jeep Wrangler survives. Other than the Jeep, I really see nothing else of value to GM. I think they would be better off holding onto their share of GMAC, even with the mortgage market tanking, holding onto those house notes is a better bet than a car manufacturer with little prospect of resurgence.
Capt Skup
AD-1(AW)USN Ret.
Wonderful Wife, 3 beautiful Daughters
"Never get in a battle of wits with an unarmed man"
Delaine and Lindy wrote: This want happen, no advantage for GM, the Duramax/Allison is a proven combo. GBY....
I hope you are right, and also hope it doesn't happen. But unlike you I see a huge chance for GM to dominate the truck market, if they play their cards right.
The Cummins engine is also proven, moreso than the Duramax, and with the Aisin trans currently used in the cab/chassis Dodges is just the best available. It would be easy to convert the Aisin to all Dodges, though the 68RFE currenty used in Dodge pickups may be as good as the Allison already.
Again though, I hope you are right. Time will tell. Best guess I have heard at this merger actually happening is a 50/50 chance.
Capt Skup wrote: Well I hope the Jeep Wrangler survives. Other than the Jeep, I really see nothing else of value to GM. I think they would be better off holding onto their share of GMAC, even with the mortgage market tanking, holding onto those house notes is a better bet than a car manufacturer with little prospect of resurgence.
Typical Capt Skup, I would expect nothing less than your anti Dodge nonsense. At least you are consistent.
Dodge still offers some products that are still popular, the Dodge/Chrysler minivans are still the best selling minivans in the country when sales are combined. The Dodge Rams are still popular as I have said earlier, and the 09 Dodge 1500 is likely going to steal many sales from the other brands. Even you have commented on what a nice truck it is.
Sure GM could drop many of the less popular Dodge products like the Durango/Dakota, the PT Cruiser, and some others. But to completely destroy the brand would be foolish. You anti Dodge guys just can't get that fact straight.
Well I need to go back outside and finish a project I have been working on today. I will check back later tonight to read any and all attempted rebuttals to the facts and opinions I have presented. Have a good evening.
Capt Skup wrote: Well I hope the Jeep Wrangler survives. Other than the Jeep, I really see nothing else of value to GM
GM has no value, they are on the verge of Bankruptcy. At best they might start breaking even in a couple of years, if they last that long. These GM fanatics talk like GM is doing something right. If they were they wouldnt almost be out of business.
The only reason they would merge is to save there hide if thats still possible..
Robert
06 Ram CTD 2500HD Megacab Flame Red
2005 298 BHS Jayco Eagle TT
Hensley Arrow , Prodigy
GM 36.71% (549,197 units)
Ford 29.91% (447,513 units)
Toyota 15.53% (232,339 units)
Dodge 13.10% (196,058 units)
Nissan 4.73% (70,773 units)
At least Nissan is keeping Dodge off the bottom.
I could see GM keeping the cummins around for MDT applications but the new technology GM and others are working on will be the power plants for the LDTs.
Not sure where you get your numbers, but Toyota hasn't sold that many Tundras. I guess you combined the Tacoma numbers into the Toyota truck total, but failed to combine the Dakota numbers into the Dodge trucks. Using that method, you would have to combine all light trucks together to get a fair comparison.
Here are the ACTUAL year to date numbers for specific trucks from www.pickuptruck.com ..
"Ford F-Series
392,698 -26.9% YTD
September 2008: 32,727
September 2007: 56,065
Chevrolet Silverado
370,502 -22.5% YTD
September 2008: 50,428
September 2007: 52,480
Dodge Ram
196,058 -29.0% YTD
September 2008: 20,812
September 2007: 30,100
GMC Sierra
133,811 -14.9% YTD
September 2008: 18,744
September 2007: 18,445
Toyota Tacoma
117,313 -13.4% YTD
September 2008: 9,176
September 2007: 13,996
Toyota Tundra
115,026 -20.4% YTD
September 2008: 7,696
September 2007: 19,571
Ford Ranger
54,815 -4.6% YTD
September 2008: 3,915
September 2007: 4,019
Chevrolet Colorado
44,884 -24.2% YTD
September 2008: 3,359
September 2007: 5,598
Nissan Frontier
40,873 -19.4% YTD
September 2008: 1,534
September 2007: 5,480
Nissan Titan
29,900 -41.3% YTD
September 2008: 2,872
September 2007: 5,193"
You will note that the Dodge Ram is still a strong seller in 3rd place behind the Ford and Chevy trucks. The GMC sierra is over 60,000 units Behind the Dodge.
My suggestion to use the GMC was for looks alone, and not based on sales numbers. I personally find the current Chevy truck front hideous, and find the GMC version more visually appealing. But perhaps GM would be wise to keep the Silverado I don't know. I always thought the only reason the Chevy out sold the GMC was due to lower prices and the Chevy name. I feel if you put the GMC body work on the Chevy, it would still sell well, and maybe even better. But that's just speculation on my part.
Another important note is that the current Dodge 4500/5500 trucks are selling well and even took Ford's top spot in that market for a few months. GM doesn't even compete in that market at all. Again this would show that using the Dodge trucks as the work/utility type line would be a wise move.
Looks like I get my numbers from the same place you do. The only difference appears to be that I know how to add. Get your calculator out and add up all of the trucks on the list made by each maker and you will get the exact numbers in my post. I am sorry that your beloved truck is on its way to the boneyard but that's life. BTW in response to your previous post, my current truck is the first chevy I have ever owned. If Ford ever gets its act together with a decent engine I'm headed back that way. After recently driving a new Dodge my friend was looking at I can not imagine any circumstance under which I would actually pay money for one. Friend bought a Ford. There was no comparison between the two trucks. The dealerships actually were on either side of the road. Friend asked the Dodge salesman if he could park the trucks side by side to compare them. The dodge guy just turned and walked away with his tail between his legs. It was really sad.
* This post was
edited 10/11/08 05:30pm by jmramiller *
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