MrWizard
Van Nuys, Ca
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a great many scooters and motorcycles use a vacuum operated fuel valve, little chance of carb flooding while in storage, but a real B***** to kick start on a dry carburetor,
i wish my wheels with the vacuum fuel valve, had the pump and primer
* This post was
edited 09/06/08 12:53am by MrWizard *
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walkers2rad
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So I ran all of the tests that I could think of, let me know if there is anything I missed that might be worth the trouble. I could probably get a scope to look at the sine wave but I dont know if that would be of much value.
First the 12v battery (overcharging) output. I hooked up a charged auto battery reading 12.6 volts. Economy mode with no load voltage climbed quickly to 15.75v, ramped up to speed 17v. So leaving this on a battery you like will not do it any favors unless you are going to keep an eye on the voltage.
Kind of to be expected, the obvious answer would be an automatic charger. In the interest of efficiency I may tie this into the solar regulator on my big box trailer that only has a 5 watt panel to keep up the battery for storage but does not keep up very well when the lights and such are used much.
For some reason I wanted to find out what kind of load it takes to demand more rpm from the economy mode. At around 350-400 watts you start to notice by the sound of the engine that it is loading some with no change in speed. 500 watts is where it is obvious that the speed starts to pick up some. Subsequent testing finds that with 1kw loads there is a significant difference in speed with economy mode on and off and at 1750w they match up about the same and loads over that gains more speed, all as to be expected.
So I turn off all breakers in the MH except the input and the A/C. Measure the fan only draw to find 275w lo and 300 hi, consistant front and rear. Give a try to start the rear compressor w/fan on low in the economy mode and no other load and no dice, stalls the motor with too much surge load with the rpm's so low. However I find it does start a 1550 watt resistive heater box load or a 1400 watt microwave from the economy mode. I suspect that with maybe about 600 watts of base load so that the engine has more momentum it may start the compressor but that might be just plain hard on everything. So I start it with economy mode off. I have no way of telling what the surge current was but pressure building starts at 900 watts. It settles in at about 1040 watts but it is not working hard cause it is in the cooled garage. With one a/c running I add 1020 watts of resistive load (heater box on low) to the other plug in and it picks it up kind of reluctantly and carries it. Clicking it up to a Hi 1550 watts for a total of about 2600 watts surge triggers an overload and it idles down and needs shut off and restarted to reset.
So I see what it will take by sneeking up the load slowly and at 2250 watts I add another 60watt light bulb which finds its limits. My altitude is 2650' if that makes any difference, it was likely the electronics kicking it out. At 2250 it was wound up tight like it was near its limits, sounded like 5,000 rpm's.
I check and note what all my loads are...
Reefer takes 315 watts when switched on.
TV, DVR, DVD/VHS and surround consumes 85-100 watts.
Small three stage charger for the coach battery pulls 85 watts in its bulk charging mode.
Batteries were up so did not really test the PD 45 with cw, if I remember right it takes what it wants up to 875 watts. Since the batteries are up and it is in float mode, draw was minimal.
The only additional mods I have planned for it is possibly add that rv recept and an hour meter to be able to see how long it lives. I am hoping at least long enough to pay for itself in gas savings to make the convience factor a bonus. It will save me the most using it on the houseboat. I expect at least a 75% fuel savings over the 8kw westerbake marine 4cyl. I hate running that for several hours a day just to run the chest freezer and keep up on the batteries. The savings in not having to buy so much ice may be a side benefit.
I expect to save at least half or more as an alternitive to running the 5500 onan a good deal of the time. Being able to run a single a/c at night for sleeping while camping in the summertime will be a great comfort for sure when the nighttime temps are high. I can handle a dollar an hour at todays gas prices much better than twice that.
I will come back and own up to it if the smoke gets out of it before its time, but for now I am happy with it as it does everything I need it to do.
I hope that everyone understands that I didnt share any of this to try to convince anyone to buy one of these or sell out of whatever they are using, especially if they like what they have. It is all in the spirit of sharing of knowledge and experience. Not everyone needs to be saved from themselves and if nobody goes out on a limb nothing gets learned.
Ray
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Matthew_B
The boonies near Dallas, Oregon
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walkers2rad wrote:Subsequent testing finds that with 1kw loads there is a significant difference in speed with economy mode on and off and at 1750w they match up about the same and loads over that gains more speed, all as to be expected.
So do I read that to mean that eco mode off, the generator doesn't run at full speed, but at a lower intermediate speed.
Sounds like an improvement over a EU2000. They're freaking annoying with ECO off since they spin so dang fast.
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Matthew_B
The boonies near Dallas, Oregon
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It looks like all of the EBAY listings are now updated to remove references to a TT-30 plug.
If the generator is really a 2400W unit, then a 20A plug is OK.
The pictures online show the 120V plugs rotated by 90 degrees from a "normal" receptacle. So the twin 15A to one 30A adapter wouldn't work if that's how they're put on the generator.
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MrWizard
Van Nuys, Ca
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walkers2rad
nice review / testing, thank you for the info.
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pritch272
Martinez, GA
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Joined: 03/18/2006
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walkers2rad, enjoyed reading your posts, thanks for sharing.
Retired US Army
2000 Ford F250 SD 7.3 PSD, Firestone Ride-Rite™ air springs
2007 Keystone Laredo 29RL, Doran Pressure Pro and Metal Tire Valves, 16" Michelin XPS Ribs, Dirt Devil CV950 Central Vacuum, 2000W AllPower (Honda Clone), 4000/3500W Champion C46540
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Old & Slow
Texas
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Joined: 07/25/2007
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walkers2rad,
From a old head. Perhaps I need to get past Ned in the first reader and inter the world of 'new technology' Inverters seem to be the wave of the future in small gensets. The list price of just a AVR for a Onan is around $300 so perhaps the cost the replace the modual on your new inverter will not exceed this amount. One question. Do you expect long life from your unit? I read often that my Champion is classed as a throw away unit. 200/500 hours, something like that. We have one report of 2000 hours from a champion 196 cc engine. If I remember correctly a AVR was replaced. No report of other repairs from that poster. My thought is for my needs, I will never reach 300 hours. I have a C46540 in the genhouse for back up power and testing of sound lowering ideas. ALSO, it's sitting on ready if the Generac 4000w in my MH ever fails. I already have in mind the replacement method. It will surely be more quiet than my Genenac. Do you foresee using your inverter by placing it in a Factory Genset Compartment in any way?
Floyd
PS. If any one is interested. I now have the use of my left arm and hand. Not 100%. The surgery required the drilling of 3 holes in my elbow to reattaching the tendons, no more gimpy arm.. I will try to be more careful to step OVER all water hoses and also look where I step. I might step in IT.
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tvman44
Southwest Louisiana
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Good information "walkers2rad", it helps to know if someone bought a piece of equipment and how well it performs and if the purchaser would do it again. Thanks again.  Papa Bob
Papa Bob
1* DW "Granny"
1* 2008 Brookside Sunnybrook 32'
1* 2002 F250 Super Duty 7.3L PSD
Husky 16K hitch, Tekonsha P3,
Firestone Ride Rite Air Springs, Trailair Equa-Flex, Champion C46540
"A bad day camping is better than a good day at work!"
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bobandcat
Southern AZ
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Joined: 04/20/2006
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I finally read the EBAY auction today for "walkers2rad" inverter genset.
I see the new trick the advertisers are using is to rate the engine HP in watts. The customer will think that this is the electrical output from the generator. The marketing folks get you again!
The 3000 watt advertised unit (2600 watts electrical output per the specs.) is really only a 2250 watt output generator per Ray's testing. I also noticed that they warrant the engine for 3 years but the generator for only 30 days. Thanks for all of the info, Ray.
Bob and Cathy
2002 Montana 3655FL
2006 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison
PullRite 16k Superglide
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rogerw2
Georgetown, TEXAS
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Professor, and All,
I have purchased a Champion C46540 for RV use to power a Dometic 13.5BTU-hr A/C. I had previously borrowed a friends 7.5KW Generac and Man, was that noisy! Being a semi-retired EE, I did my calculations and came to the conclusion that 2KW would run the A/C excepting for start/rush current. However, all my professional work was with micro-Watts at the semiconductor chip level, and I had not acqainted myself with Rotating AC Machinery since schooldays in the early 1970s. I have spent long hours on the internet brushing up on inductiton motors, generators, etc, etc, leading up to this purchase... Long story short- the Champion met every expectation I had for it, and is much quieter of course than the Generac. This is a well-made machine!
THEN I found this thread.....an amazing compendium of information and distilled experience on the very subject I had been wrestling with! Thank you Prof and All! When I started, I was a little apprehensive that maybe an ELM3000 would have been a better choice....when I got to about page 200 when the C46540 becomes the primo recomendation, I was beaming! I am currently on page 422 and am quite interested in the noise abatement discussion.
I did some freefield noise measurements at 23ft on each side and got 68dbA(front) 67dbA(right) 72dBA(back) 72dBa(left) sides. I took a course in college on industrial noise abatement (sound fields are mathematically similar in important ways to electromagnetic fields, btw) and I find that most ideas I have had turns out to be anticipated and even prototyped in this thread as I read it. Excellent!
I do have a practical question. I would like to improve the starting characteristic of my Dometic 13.5K so that as it ages it does not become a problem for a genny, also so restarts can occur quickly. After study, I am clear on why I want a Electronic Potential Rely product instead of a PTC Relay product to accomplish this. I researched online to find that nearly every RV reference to this situation uses a Supco SPP6E. A product brochure here http://www.supco.com/images/pdfproductsheets/E%20Class%20Prod%20Sheet.pdf specifies 170Volt to 277Volt operation for the SPP6E on the first page and then 90Volt to 277Volt on the second page. I emailed Supco and the reply informed me that the SPP6E is for 240Volt operation, not 120Volt operation, and the brochure has a type problem on this spec. They also disavowed any testing of their product with the Dometic A/C.
This leads me to question whether users of the SPP6E in 120V applications are getting a true EPR functionality or whether the backup timeout feature of this same product is not actually the functionality they are depending on....?
To make matter worse, the Supco catalog http://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/2006%20HVAC%20Catalog%20HVAC%20Section%202-51.pdf gives 90Volt to 277Volt for ALL of the E-series products....
Since it matters what voltage the EPR senses and opens at, and the SPP4E is uniformly specified at 90V minimum, has any one used this one?
CAn anyone shed light on my confusion?
YHS,
rogerw
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