JohninSD
San Diego Ca USA
Full Member
Joined: 01/26/2004
View Profile
|
Actually, the GAWR on the door sticky is just twice the load rating for the tires that originally came with the truck (or 4 times the tire rating for duallies). Tha actual GAWR is higher and can be found in the owner's manual - or at least it can in the case of my 1997 F250HD. GAWR on the door sticky is 6084 pounds (2 x 3042 pounds, the weight rating for LT265/75R16/D tires) while the GAWR in the owner's manual is 6250 pounds.
|
BradW
Flat Rock, Alabama
Moderator
Joined: 10/29/2001
View Profile
|
Ford printed the door sticker and the manual. There is no way to know which number is correct or if either number is correct. Generally, I have found information in the owners manual to be more generic and dated than information that is specific to a particular vehicle; like door stickers. When it comes to tire, wheel or axle rating, given two ratings, I will go with the smaller rating. In this case, there isn't a significant difference.
Our Truck Camper Photos
1996 Lance 500 and 2006 F-350 PSD 4X4 DRW
Visit the RV.net Blogs
|
Flashman
Tucson, Aizona, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 01/02/2005
View Profile
|
BradW wrote:BrandonR wrote: While tire ratings are easy to find axle ratings are sometimes difficult. For example I compared a GM 1/2 ton suburban to a GM 1/2 ton pickup, same Gm 10 bolt rear axle but the suburban had a higher weight rating, on the suburban it's limited by the wheel ratings (2000lbs/wheel) but the pickup has some other limitation (tires and wheels add up to more than the sticker rating) I was never able to find an actual weight rating for the axle itself.
The GAWR for each axle is on the vehicle door sticky. That is the axle rating. I agree that similar looking axles may be rated differently on different vehicles, but the GAWR posted on the door sticky is the axle weight rating for that vehicle.
Brad
OK Brad,
Try to follow along here.
If the axle is the same on the SRW 2500/250 and the SRW 3500/350 and yet has a different rating on that little tag what may be the difference?
It will most likely be the tires/wheels and then the springs - both of which are easy to upgrade. Most of the big 3s trucks today have the same frame, bearings and brakes betwwen the 2 - 2500 and 3500 SRW.
So if I upgrade those components then I have effectively raised my rating - all I have to do is replace that little tag in the door.
|
JIMNLIN
Big Cabin, OK
Senior Member
Joined: 09/14/2003
View Profile
|
Flashman wrote:
(snip)
OK Brad,
Try to follow along here.
If the axle is the same on the SRW 2500/250 and the SRW 3500/350 and yet has a different rating on that little tag what may be the difference?
It will most likely be the tires/wheels and then the springs - both of which are easy to upgrade. Most of the big 3s trucks today have the same frame, bearings and brakes betwwen the 2 - 2500 and 3500 SRW.
So if I upgrade those components then I have effectively raised my rating - all I have to do is replace that little tag in the door.
first off the vehicle manufactor set the GAWRs and then matches the tires to that rating. Most 2500 HD trucks are around 6000-6100 RAWR. GM/Dodge 3500 SRW will be around 6400 RAWR and Ford 3500 SRW has a 7000 RAWR. Tires are matched to the vehicle manufactors rating per 571.110/.120 fed regs. The door sticker with the GAWRs is another fed reg requirement per 567.4 . Only a certified vehicle alterer/modifier may change a door sticker BUT you will be opening up a can of worms when resale time comes. NHTSA has a big Q&A on their home page on vehicle alterers/modifiers. If it was a good thing to do many would alredy have made the door tag change. Your point of 2500HD/3500 SRW rear axles being the same or almost the same is spot on. Thats why the OP needs to look at 19.5 wheels and tires and get rid of those little 8 ply rated D tires and go with a 10 ply rated E tire that is rated for the actual RAW. F or G tires would be a smarter choice. For safety sake stay with the load range E tire which probably came on the truck. This was a rookie mistake in derating to a 8 ply tire. Keep in mind we were all rookies at one time so no bash was meant to the OP. He will still be over his RAWR which is his choice as is between him and a LEO if the combo is ever weighed. AND that not likely to happen. Is he safe ? I wouldn't tell a 3500 DRW operator pulling a popup that he is safe. I also wouldn't make a statement that other folks are overweight without ever seeing a weight ticket from a scale house.
'03 2500 Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs
'97 Park Avanue 28' with two slides
|
BradW
Flat Rock, Alabama
Moderator
Joined: 10/29/2001
View Profile
|
Flashman wrote: OK Brad,
Try to follow along here.
If the axle is the same on the SRW 2500/250 and the SRW 3500/350 and yet has a different rating on that little tag what may be the difference?
It will most likely be the tires/wheels and then the springs - both of which are easy to upgrade. Most of the big 3s trucks today have the same frame, bearings and brakes betwwen the 2 - 2500 and 3500 SRW.
So if I upgrade those components then I have effectively raised my rating - all I have to do is replace that little tag in the door.
You can change any parts you like, but you can't change the GAWR. The GAWR is established by the manufacturer, not the owner. Same is true of the GVWR. In either case, changing parts won't change the manufacturer's rating.
|
|
|
mudmovers
Whittier, Ca
Full Member
Joined: 08/22/2008
View Profile
 Offline
|
I think that if a load distributing hitch was used to help with that tongue weight, and the 19.5's were used, (which we all agree doesn't alter the "manufacturer's rating", but does seem to 'bump' the capacity a bit) that the OP will be just fine.... Probably the biggest concern everybody has for this setup is the D rated tires. Get that fixed, and I think you'll be alright. You've already towed with it, and the "road feel" was fine, I would assume. Just getting your tire's in the right load range would give some peace of mind for your situation.
My .02c..... I'm no expert, and very new the the TC world myself, but it seems logical.
Jon
2004 Chevrolet 3500 4x4-D/A CCLB SRW, 19.5 Visions-245/70 Toyo M608-z
air bags, tork lift frame mounts, super hitch w/48" extension
2009 Host Everest Triple slide
95 Wrangler "crawler" 75 IHC Scout II "wheeler"
04 KFX400 02 TRX250
|
juschuman
Pasadena, CA
Full Member
Joined: 05/09/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
By the way, I got my Vision's and Hankook DH01's last week. NOW it drives like a truck! Tires definately do not flex as much, but are actually quieter than my A/T's. A little bumpy, but looking forward to having them under load.
Stable-loads next, to get those overload springs working, and off we go!
I'm also installing the lance cab-over struts to help with the little bit of porpoising I've noticed. Hrmm, I wonder if that will change the weight distribution a few pounds...  KIDDING, kidding.
2003 F250SRW 7.3 FX4 Shortbox Crewcab - Vision 81 19.5's / 265 Hankook DH01's - Powerslots / Hawks - Timbrens SES springs / Stable Loads - 2000 Lance 820 - Torklift Superhitch w/Supertruss - Torklifts w/Fastguns - 1988 Circle J 2-Horse BP Straight Load
|
juschuman
Pasadena, CA
Full Member
Joined: 05/09/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
Flashman wrote:If the axle is the same on the SRW 2500/250 and the SRW 3500/350 and yet has a different rating on that little tag what may be the difference?
It will most likely be the tires/wheels and then the springs - both of which are easy to upgrade. Most of the big 3s trucks today have the same frame, bearings and brakes betwwen the 2 - 2500 and 3500 SRW.
So if I upgrade those components then I have effectively raised my rating - all I have to do is replace that little tag in the door.
Ha ha, good luck getting agreement on that! 
What i've learned from all of this is, I researched the issues, and I solved them effectively in MY mind, and I'm not going to stress about the darn sticker. I'll never get that sticker to change and be as reliable as the original one from the factory, even if I had a certified shop change it.
Personally, I am not at all, and I mean *at all* concerned that I'm going to get pulled into a weigh station or pulled over and weighed and ticketed. My rig looks safe, it looks perfectly within reason compared to many, many rigs out there (triples anyone?), and unless Smokeywren is a CHP officer (kidding smokey!), I will be just fine(KNOCKING ON WOOD AS I TYPE!)
I also don't want to sound down on the people here who voice opinions about us overweight pigs, I totally understand, and when I have enough cash to pick up a F550, I will be of a similar opinion I'm sure! I am overweight, I know, and yes, if I could I would upgrade. But simply, I cannot. And we LOVE our camper, it's bought and paid for, and what is done is done!
Yellowstone here we come!
|
SoCalDesertRider
SanDiego, CA, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 12/14/2003
View Profile
|
JohninSD wrote:Actually, the GAWR on the door sticky is just twice the load rating for the tires that originally came with the truck (or 4 times the tire rating for duallies). Tha actual GAWR is higher and can be found in the owner's manual - or at least it can in the case of my 1997 F250HD. GAWR on the door sticky is 6084 pounds (2 x 3042 pounds, the weight rating for LT265/75R16/D tires) while the GAWR in the owner's manual is 6250 pounds. On your truck, the rear axle weight rating is 6250 lbs, per the axle manufacturer, Visteon. I have the same axle in my F350.
Ford's axle weight rating is based on the tires, 235/85-16E's, which are rated to 3042 lbs each, x 2 = 6084 lbs.
265/75-16E tires are typically rated to 3415 lbs each.
92F350 CrewCab 4x4 351/C6
LoadNGo service body
69Bronco ATC250R CR500
20' BigTex flatbed carhauler
B&W TurnoverBall g-neck Curt Magnum rr DrawTite ft
HD springs Rancho9000s Bilsteins poly sway bushings
285/75-16E BFG AT on 16x8 Stocktons
4.56's & Lock-Rite rear
|
JIMNLIN
Big Cabin, OK
Senior Member
Joined: 09/14/2003
View Profile
|
49 CFR part 571.120 for over 10k vehicles
(edited for length ;;; JIm)
S5.1.2 the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall be not less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. (door tag)
If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle. If the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle does not appear on the certification label, the sum shall be not less than the lowest GAWR appearing on the label.
for under 10k vehicles part 571.110 applies but basically says the tires will be fitted to the vehicle manufactors GAWRs.
part 571.120/.110 are the same weight regs that NHTSA and FMCSA requires the state to enforce commercial and non commercial weight regs.
Jim
|
|
|
|
