juschuman
Pasadena, CA
Full Member
Joined: 05/09/2008
View Profile
 Offline
|
JerryBowers wrote:juschuman wrote: Strange how Ford downgraded the axle rating by over 3,000 lbs.
Jon
Jon:
Ford's rating is based on the entire load supporting structure, including the truck bed, frame, attach brackets, springs, shocks, axle, brakes, wheels, tires, and any other load bearing or force transmitting component between where the load is applied and where the tires rest on the ground. In other words, it is the rating of the rear axle subsystem.
Just as an an extreme example: Putting a single 30,000# component between a bunch of 6,000# components does not make the whole assembly rating 30,000#.
Please do not consider this a criticism of your intended course of action. I just wanted to make the technical point that while one component may be rated for (much) higher weights, it does not change the rating of the whole assembly.
Totally understood. Yes, I know there are a lot of other factors, but I am focusing on the things I can change effectively. My point was more that they downgraded the axle to a number that is based on the tires that came with the truck, which is just silly, nanny-state type behavior that I have come to expect from a truck manufacturer!
2004 F350 DRW Shortbox Crewcab - Stable Loads - 2000 Lance 820 - Torklift Superhitch w/Supertruss - Torklifts w/Fastguns - 1988 Circle J 2-Horse BP Straight Load
|
juschuman
Pasadena, CA
Full Member
Joined: 05/09/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
So, I called a few Costco's and found out they are not stocking the XDE's but instead the XDS2's.
They have them for $318 installed, but because they are not "recommended tires" for my truck, they won't install them.
$307 for take-out.
|
harleycb
Powell, Wyoming
New Member
Joined: 03/29/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
I too have a SRW truck, but in my case a '03 F350. After upgrading campers I switched into 19.5" tires and going down the road hauling my 3 horse trailer behind me, I am grossly over the Ford posted GVW and axle rating. However, I am comfortable with my setup and I drive knowing that I am heavy and my rig behaves more like a semi than a sports car.
After looking around at others, I see many people running heavy campers on 3/4 ton trucks and still pulling trailers behind them without any modifications to stock. If the posted GVW's and axles ratings are the breaking point for these trucks, you would see nearly every truck broken down!
Considering this point, the only cases I have heard of people have problems are old trucks (1980's and before) and tire problems. It is amazing that the "weight police" on this board hasn't posted any reference to all these breakdowns that must be occuring....
For me, I won't abandon my 7.3l powerstroke until the engine is toast - especially to buy a F450 - F550 at 50 - 60 grand that gets worse performance that what I currently have! While dealers are pushing the new units off the lots, you can't hardly give away a used heavy truck, so that story goes two ways
Set up your truck properly, drive conservatively and enjoy yourself.
Tom
2003 Ford F350, 4x4, CC, Long Bed, Banks Exhaust and Gauges, DP Tuner, ATS turbo housing, Rickson 19.5 wheels w/Toyo M608Z tires, 2007 SnowRiver 8'10".
|
BradW
Flat Rock, Alabama
Moderator
Joined: 10/29/2001
View Profile
|
harleycb wrote: After looking around at others, I see many people running heavy campers on 3/4 ton trucks and still pulling trailers behind them without any modifications to stock. If the posted GVW's and axles ratings are the breaking point for these trucks, you would see nearly every truck broken down!
I agree that many SRW (me included when I owned two SRW's) and some DRW trucks are over the manufacturers GVWR. But very few exceed the axle ratings; or tire ratings for that matter. I would strongly advise against exceeding either the axle or tire ratings.
Brad
Our Truck Camper Photos
1996 Lance 500 and 2006 F-350 PSD 4X4 DRW
Visit the RV.net Blogs
|
btggraphix
Golden, CO
Senior Member
Joined: 03/08/2005
View Profile
|
This has been an interesting thread, and I'd say the group (for a change?) has been remarkbly civil and on topic.
To the OP, I think you are on track. In the long run, it would be better to get a bigger truck NOW, but it's understood the long-run financial 'best move' is not always practical in day-to-day life.
Clearly the tires/wheels have got to go. It's too bad that the next step up in the 16" size that are rated at 3415 are STILL not enough, your only real choice is what you are going with. You'll be in good shape wheel/tire wise and that seems to be the most likely point of 'dangerous' failure. By dangerous failure I mean failure that could easily cause a crash and cause your buddies at the station house to come pick you up or others around you. The axle may wear faster than it should, but diffeential or ring/pinion, U-joint (etc.) type of failures are much less likely to causes crashes then wa wheel/tire.
Anyway, I am sure there are brake upgrades you could do too. EGR Brakes sells aftermarket brake kits which do seem to help a lot. I put a full kit from them on my GMC and it helped a fair amount. Not as much as the kit my buddy put on his Dodge 1/2 ton, but worth the money for sure. I am not sure about the Ford kits. I think Reddog1 was going to look into a kit for his truck but I am not sure he ever did.
My old GMC was about 1000 overweight, and BY FAR my biggest issue was the brakes. They were bad. You haven't told us what driving your truck is actually like.......how do the brakes feel with and without the horse trailer?
In your fairly extreme case, I think I would start (and end?) the suspension modifications with a custom set of springs made for your specific weight needs at a good spring shop. Good spring shops truly can make a spring pack that suits the needs. You know exactly the weight you need to carry and they may even be able to make it with overloads that will only be engaged when loaded, and not when unloaded which would certainly help the unloaded ride. Throw on some better shocks (adjustable Ranchos are a good bet..I really liked them on my old truck) at the same time.
Lastly, upgrading the trailer brakes as previously suggested is probably a good idea as well. Not sure how costly that is.....and you might wait until after you do the truck brakes (and/or exhaust brake?) but it is likely a very good idea as well.
I think if you do these things, you'll be in way safer waters. There might be a few smaller items that you could add later if desired (sway bar?) Doing it this way may not make the best long term financial sense, but if you think it is making the best of your situation then go for it. Most around here will do their best to help, with a minimum of harrassment.
Good luck!
PS: For a little irony, I went out and bought a 17,500 GVWR truck, and I still ended up being overweight by about 750 pounds.....it should have been a 5500 but I'm sure not worried about the extra weight. If I ever felt like it, I'd change out the rear springs to the 5500 springs (actually, custom ones) but I'd end up wanting to raise it up a little, and I won't do that until I have a custom box camper of some sort.
Oh yeah, I do know of a spring shop from a MDT forum I read that is in SoCal. I'll try to track that down for you. They make some custom springs for Kodiak/TopKicks that people rave about.
2006 LanceMax 1191 - loaded and well-used
2005 C4500/Kodiak 4x4, GVWR 17,500
|
|
|
juschuman
Pasadena, CA
Full Member
Joined: 05/09/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
harleycb wrote:
Considering this point, the only cases I have heard of people have problems are old trucks (1980's and before) and tire problems. It is amazing that the "weight police" on this board hasn't posted any reference to all these breakdowns that must be occuring....
Yes this is something I have wondered about. Why don't we hear about all these catastrophic breakdowns that are supposed to occur if you exceed the ratings? I haven't seen many, or any for that matter. Not that it says that it can't happen, but it would be interesting to hear about them.
|
btggraphix
Golden, CO
Senior Member
Joined: 03/08/2005
View Profile
|
You wouldn't necessarily hear about them as overweight failures. You'd just hear about a truck that went off the road, a deer that got hit, a pile-up on the interstate etc. Not knowing that the guy that went off the road was going too fast for his truck's ability to make a turn at speed, the guy that hit the deer couldn't stop fast enough etc. It would be very hard to pull out the number of times weight contributed to the wreck.
But I would feel safer with a guy like juschuman who is a good driver, knows his rig well, upgrades the obvious weak points, and drives slower and more cautiously than he would in a sports car. It's the guy on bald tires, in the rain, with brake pads down to the pins weaving in and out of traffic that scares me. Some people have no clue.
on eidt...maybe you were talking about wear items? I know my 97 GMC 2500 has the rear diff blow up when on a bumpy side road....locked up the whole rear end first, then while I was skidding a little it broke loose and began rolling again. I was going maybe 30MPH on a wash-board side road at the time. I doubt I would have crashed if it had happened on the highway though but you never know. This happened at maybe 100,000 miles, and BEFORE I bought my bigger/heavier S&S. My failure was certainly not due to overweight.....just wear and tear and ????
So often speed is the real killer.....
|
BrandonR
Oregon
Senior Member
Joined: 04/12/2006
View Profile
|
BradW wrote:harleycb wrote: After looking around at others, I see many people running heavy campers on 3/4 ton trucks and still pulling trailers behind them without any modifications to stock. If the posted GVW's and axles ratings are the breaking point for these trucks, you would see nearly every truck broken down!
I agree that many SRW (me included when I owned two SRW's) and some DRW trucks are over the manufacturers GVWR. But very few exceed the axle ratings; or tire ratings for that matter. I would strongly advise against exceeding either the axle or tire ratings.
Brad
While tire ratings are easy to find axle ratings are sometimes difficult. For example I compared a GM 1/2 ton suburban to a GM 1/2 ton pickup, same Gm 10 bolt rear axle but the suburban had a higher weight rating, on the suburban it's limited by the wheel ratings (2000lbs/wheel) but the pickup has some other limitation (tires and wheels add up to more than the sticker rating) I was never able to find an actual weight rating for the axle itself.
Brandon Reed
Albany, OR
|
Mooney
Santa Barbara, Ca
Senior Member
Joined: 09/10/2002
View Profile
Offline
|
juschuman wrote:harleycb wrote:
Considering this point, the only cases I have heard of people have problems are old trucks (1980's and before) and tire problems. It is amazing that the "weight police" on this board hasn't posted any reference to all these breakdowns that must be occuring....
Yes this is something I have wondered about. Why don't we hear about all these catastrophic breakdowns that are supposed to occur if you exceed the ratings? I haven't seen many, or any for that matter. Not that it says that it can't happen, but it would be interesting to hear about them.
We do.
Fortunately not every day.
Each of us has to make a decision on what is safe and how far over we are willing to cross that line.
However in my opinion it's important not to subscribe to the theory that "there are plenty of others who do it" so it must be safe.
'08 Ford F550, Lariat, Link Air Suspension, Roll-A-Long Conversion, Twin Turbo 6.4, TorkLifts, SuperHitch, "Monster Duty Truckasaurus"
'09 Host Everest
.
|
BradW
Flat Rock, Alabama
Moderator
Joined: 10/29/2001
View Profile
|
BrandonR wrote: While tire ratings are easy to find axle ratings are sometimes difficult. For example I compared a GM 1/2 ton suburban to a GM 1/2 ton pickup, same Gm 10 bolt rear axle but the suburban had a higher weight rating, on the suburban it's limited by the wheel ratings (2000lbs/wheel) but the pickup has some other limitation (tires and wheels add up to more than the sticker rating) I was never able to find an actual weight rating for the axle itself.
The GAWR for each axle is on the vehicle door sticky. That is the axle rating. I agree that similar looking axles may be rated differently on different vehicles, but the GAWR posted on the door sticky is the axle weight rating for that vehicle.
Brad
|
|
|
|
