kaydeejay
SE Michigan, USA
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Joined: 07/26/2004
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JIMNLIN wrote:kaydeejay wrote: (snip)
Loading to max RAWR will usually exceed GVWR but that is a choice for each individual to make.
guess you didn't read the part where I mention we may in some states uprate the trucks GVWR. .........snip.......... Both will satify any new truck warranty issues and any state weight regs.
Jim OK Jim, I'll reword it to read "Loading to max RAWR will usually exceed MANUFACTURER'S GVWR. And BTW, if the manufacturer/dealer is aware that you are exceeding that GVWR they can certainly void warranty on powertrain components.
Many years ago (well pre 2002) I have personally provided weight data to the GM service department that enabled them to make that call.
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JIMNLIN
Big Cabin, OK
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I've owned and operated many LDT's over the years (commercially and non commercial) and as long as the trucks GAWRs were used warranty wasn't a problem. I've noticed the newer GM, for example, truck brochures says the "trailer kingpin weight cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating".
Dealers, OK and TX anyway, will tell their commercial customers to stay within their GAWR's as we can uprate GVWR for commercial use in OK and TX. For that reason we get no hassel from the dealers on warranty issues. It was a GM fleet sales mgr in '84 that told me I could uprate GVWR for my combined plates in OK but I had to stay within the trucks GAWR's for my warranty obligations.
JIM
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Fortkentdad
Alberta Canada
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Thanks for the advice, that's what these forums are all about.
RE: British Columbia Regs
I am aware that BC has a rep for being sticklers when it comes to overloaded trailers. This prairie boy is also a little leary of towing a trailer in the mountains, so I'm thinking we won't be heading that way anytime soon. Besides have you seen what they charge for camping in BC, and for what, all those big rocks get in the way of the view. Give me a prairie sunset anyday.
NEWS
We did buy a trailer, or at least I've put a $1,000 deposit on one - and I know I'm pushing the envelope but it we love what this trailer has to offer. If the truck proves to be inadequate to handle it, well it is a two year lease up in July 2010. IT just means we stay close to home next summer - not hard to do as we live in the midst of camper's paradise (N.E. Alberta) with dozens of campsites within an hour and then in July 2010 we upgrade the T.V.
The trailer is a Rockwell 8319SS, it has GVWR of 7890, listed GVW 6201. I figure between "options" and our personal cargo the two of us will only load it to about 7,000 to 7,200, well under the 8,000# limit I have left in my CGVW (14,000-6,000 for TV). And yes I've weighed the truck with full load and us, it was just under 6,000.
The answer above - Thanks Jim!- tells me I can expect the dealer to be able to shift some of the payload weight off of the truck through the use of WD hitch. The dealer has said he'll include that, installed and set up. So if I get this right, I should have 7,000*12% or 840# Tongue weight, of which 160# (about 20%) can be shifted off the truck and onto the TT. The goal will be to end up with the truck and trailer riding level, while at the same time keeping the payload weight within the trucks axle ratings.
Now that the decision has been made it's time to get ready for some camping.
FKD
08 Rockwood 8319SS (awaiting delivery)
08 Dodge Laramie 1500, 4x4, 3.92 axle and the Hemi
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yosemitesamiam
Glendora, CA
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kaydeejay wrote:JIMNLIN wrote: thats because payloads are figured from GAWRs not GVWR or the vehicle advertizing numbers from a web or a brochure. Payload has no legal meaning other than a advertizing number from the vehicle manufactor. Not sure about your country but in the some of the states we can uprate GVWR to a higher number. For that reason the trucks GAWRs are used to determine the payload. The rear axle carries the load so pay particular attention to RAWR numbers which are on your drivers side door tag. Your vehicles payload is simple to figure if you have the vehicle empty rear weights. Just subtract that number from RAWR number will give the max payload for that particular vehicle.
Jim Gonna disagree with you here Jim. Payload is simply the Manufacturer's GVWR minus the curb weight of the truck with 1/2 tank of fuel minus 150# for the driver.
eg. I have a 9200# GVWR, truck weight with 1/2 tank of fuel is 6550#. That leaves 2650# so subtracting 150# for the driver results in my official payload of 2500#. Simple math.
(I have to reduce that some 'coz it's been a lot of years since I weighed 150 but we won't go there!)
Loading to max RAWR will usually exceed GVWR but that is a choice for each individual to make.
And to the OP, as you live in Alberta, which is right next door to BC, be aware that exceeding Manufacturer's GVWR IS (or at least was) an offense in that province.
I know this is a couple months old now...but have a question...OK...I have a 1976 3/4 ton GMC. It is a Camper Special, and because of this, has an extra door tag with what seems a really specific Cargo Weight Rating (CWR on the tag). My GVWR is 8200lbs, GAWR for the rear is 5560lbs, and the CWR is 2687lbs. I can only assume this thing was weighed way back when to have this precise of a number. I am guessing here my curb weight with 1/2 tank and a driver that weighs 150lbs (not me for sure) is 5513lbs. Anyway...
Not an RV owner yet...but the registration page made me pick!
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yosemitesamiam
Glendora, CA
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My question is this...I'm sure this has been covered. Say you find the perfect trailer...everything is cool, you are in the 10-15% range for tongue weight...the wife, kids, all the canoes and all come out under your GVWR. Cool. Now let's say said trailer is 11,000lbs, and your truck can "only" pull 10,000lbs. Let's also say 13% (which is on the truck for this example) is 1430lbs. Do you then subtract that weight from the trailer weight? Or do you have to count it twice? If you have to count it twice, your tow weight is over...but if not, are you ok?
Thanks again
Sam
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SoCalDesertRider
SanDiego, CA, USA
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You don't count it twice. The tow rating is for the entire trailer weight (tongue weight and axle weights, with the trailer fully loaded).
The truck's GVWR is for the total loaded truck weight, which includes the trailer tongue weight when hooked up.
The truck'S GCWR (gross combined weight rating) is for the total of the loaded truck and loaded trailer together. The tow rating is derived from subtracting the the truck's curb weight from the GCWR. In reality, you should subtract the truck's fully loaded curb weight (without trailer hooked up) from the GCWR and that gives you the real-life tow rating, which is less than the inflated manufacturer-advertised tow rating.
By the way, your '76 GMC C20/K20 pickup uses the GM corporate (AAM) 10.5" rear axle, which is rated for about 10,000 lb by AAM. Your truck's rear axle weight rating is limited by the tires, wheels and springs. If you swap the stock 7.50-16.5 wheels/tires for later model 16" wheels with 235/85-16E tires, your tire/wheel load capacity for the rear will be 6084 lbs (each tire is rated for 3042 lbs), or swap to 265/75-16E's and appropriate wheels and you have 6830 lbs of rear tire load capacity (3415 x 2). Obviously, the springs would need to be upgraded as well.
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mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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Joined: 04/09/2004
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yosemitesamiam wrote:My question is this...I'm sure this has been covered. Say you find the perfect trailer...everything is cool, you are in the 10-15% range for tongue weight...the wife, kids, all the canoes and all come out under your GVWR. Cool. Now let's say said trailer is 11,000lbs, and your truck can "only" pull 10,000lbs. Let's also say 13% (which is on the truck for this example) is 1430lbs. Do you then subtract that weight from the trailer weight? Or do you have to count it twice? If you have to count it twice, your tow weight is over...but if not, are you ok?
Neither. You do not subtract it from the trailer weight, and you do not count it twice.
The weight of the trailer is the weight of the WHOLE trailer.
Tongue weight of the trailer counts against your "tow rating" and your "cargo rating." That's not the same as being counted twice.
HOWEVER, it is often argued that "tow rating" or GCWR (gross combined weight rating, the combined weight of truck, cargo, and trailer) is not a real limit, but a measure of performance.
This is a real gray area. If you're under on all your measures except that "tow rating," are you really doing something wrong? Many say yes, many say no. Realistically, you won't even notice the difference between 10,000lbs and 11,000lbs on the road. Wind resistance is the biggest problem with larger travel trailers.
Most people do not have convenient access to weighing equipment, and RV dealers certainly won't let you hook up and drag a trailer to the scales to get it weighed. There is NO OTHER WAY to figure these things out except to use the numbers provided by the manufacturer. Making sure you figure things out so that you're in-scope on all the numbers is merely a way to make reasonably sure that you're not wheeling off the lot with an overloaded setup.
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