I want to buy a new 5er and get as much 5er as I can for my truck. I was happier when I was dumber. But maybe I'm still dumber. My GVWR for my truck is 8800LBS. My FAWR is 5200LBS, my RAWR is 6084LBS. Thats over 11000LBS. I don't understand? My truck manufacture says I can pull 13200. but I'm pulling 10600(as scaled loaded)and I am 80LBS over on my pin wieght. So where am I going to find a 13200 trailer with a 10% pin weight. One size fits all is what we need. I thnk I'll go back to being dumber and just go do it.(New 5th wheel.)
You will not find a 13200lb trailer with a 10% pin weight. You will either have to go with a lighter trailer or do as most do and basically ignore the TV GVWR and follow the front and rear axle weights with E(or higher) rated tires. This will give you more room for pin weight while still being legal. The GVWR is usually just a number that the manufacture thinks is a comfy ride on the stock suspension. Most just add airbags or extra spings to help with higher pin weights and ride comfort.
What is the GCWR of your truck? If you can add the weight of the truck and the weight of the trailer together and stay at or under the GCWR, then by all means tow it.
In most states, trucks towing RVs are not held to the "legal" limits of commercial vehicles.
The weight limits are for your (and our) saftey and so that when your truck was under warranty, the manufacturer doesn't have to pay for claims if the damage to you engine or transmixer was due to you towing more than they said you could.
* This post was
last
edited 08/16/08 10:51am by Drifter_59 *
View edit history
What is so difficult to understand about GVWR being the weight at which your truck Manufacturer has certified to the Federal Government that the vehicle meets ALL Federal Safety standards (and that includes brakes)?
Loading beyond that is a personal choice and is not illegal (with maybe one or two exceptions) but don't expect the manufacturer to stand by you in court and say "Yup, it was overloaded but still perfectly safe".
Ain't gonna happen!
The BEST you will get is a canned statement saying "The vehicle has not been tested for complience at weights exceeding GVWR".
Keith J, Retired from GM Engineering
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLE 2WD/CC/SB/DA.
1999 Sunnybrook 27RKFS Fiver
Bilsteins, Line-X, Westin steps, Prodigy, Retrax, 16K Superglide, 5th-Airborne pin-box, Multi-vex mirrors.
MadMav wrote: The GVWR is usually just a number that the manufacture thinks is a comfy ride on the stock suspension. Mav
This is totally absurd advice and should be ignored. Read ANY document that discusses towing (your manual, the manufacturer's brochure, Trailer Life, RV Living, etc) and ALL will say do not, under any circumstances, exceed the GVWR. It is the maximum your truck can weigh fully loaded including everything...(pin weight, hitch weight, passengers, cargo, extra fuel, tools, etc).
It may be a little more simple to understand that FAWR and RAWR don't add together to come up with GVWR. According to the truck manufacturer, you can load the front axle to 5200 lbs., but if you do, the rear axle can't be loaded past 3600 lbs. Or, you can load the rear axle to 6084 lbs., but if you do, the front axle can't be carrying more than 2716 lbs. You won't ever load the truck this way, but it gives you some flexibility in how you load it before reaching the GVWR, the most the manufacturer says that the entire truck can weigh and stay within their specifications. If your pin weight puts your rear axle weight over 6084 lbs., you can try removing some of the cargo weight in the truck, if any, and you can also try redistributing some of the weight in the trailer,, if possible, to a location where the trailer axles will carry more of the weight.
Tongue weight on a receiver hitch should be between 10 & 15 percent of total trailer weight, and pin weight on a fifth wheel or gooseneck hitch should be 15 to 25% of trailer weight, according to GM, the manufacturer of my truck. On my truck, max tongue weight is 1500 lbs. for a receiver hitch, max pin weight weight on fifth-wheel or gooseneck is 2500.
2003 GMC Sierra Crew HD; 6.0L; Prodigy
2006 Thor Tundra 30RL-DSL; Reese Strait-Line & Dual-cam HP
2001 Honda Elite Scooter
Jim & Gayle Bryant
Murphy's Law: "Anything that CAN happen, WILL."
Bryant's Law: "31 years of RVing? Probably already HAS."
MadMav wrote: The GVWR is usually just a number that the manufacture thinks is a comfy ride on the stock suspension. Mav
This is totally absurd advice and should be ignored. Read ANY document that discusses towing (your manual, the manufacturer's brochure, Trailer Life, RV Living, etc) and ALL will say do not, under any circumstances, exceed the GVWR. It is the maximum your truck can weigh fully loaded including everything...(pin weight, hitch weight, passengers, cargo, extra fuel, tools, etc).
Your blind belief in your information is absurd. GVWR is a legal number for the manufactures to cover their ass. Plain and simple. In most states you can "purchase" more GVWR at the DMV, like a plastic ring in a 50 cent turn machine at Wally World. The GVWR is a number that says the manufacture will no longer take responsibility for repairs of certain items if you exceed it. GVRW is, more often than not, based off the suspension and tire ratings of the vehicle. If you buy more GVWR at the DMV, you will be "legal" in that state, but the TV manufacture can still deny warantee work if something breaks. So watch it if you have a warantee. There is a post in the general section that covers what is happening with this in PA and how GVWR is a bargaining item that is bought and sold.
MadMav wrote: Your blind belief in your information is absurd. GVWR is a legal number for the manufactures to cover their ass. Plain and simple. In most states you can "purchase" more GVWR at the DMV, like a plastic ring in a 50 cent turn machine at Wally World. The GVWR is a number that says the manufacture will no longer take responsibility for repairs of certain items if you exceed it. GVRW is, more often than not, based off the suspension and tire ratings of the vehicle. If you buy more GVWR at the DMV, you will be "legal" in that state, but the TV manufacture can still deny warantee work if something breaks. So watch it if you have a warantee. There is a post in the general section that covers what is happening with this in PA and how GVWR is a bargaining item that is bought and sold.
Mav
Did you even read my post above as to what the legal meaning of GVWR is?
I used to manage the group that put the door labels on GM vehicles. I suggest you go and read the one on yours.
It certifies the vehicle meets Federal safety and emission standards on the date of manufacture. Behind that statement is that GVWR is the maximum weight at which those standards were met.
Mebbe it's time those States that allow you to "buy" more GVWR talked to their counterparts at NHTSA!!
And DONN0128, ya know, sometimes it feels good when you stop banging your head against a brick wall - hence my limited weight posts of late, but when pure and dangerous garbage gets stated I just have to respond!
You just said it yourself. GVWR has only to do with emissions standards. The government doesn't CARE about GVWR on private vehicles otherwise. It's just a number. Just because you managed a group that licked the GVWR stamps and slaped them on the door jams does not mean you know the law, or the truth. The fact is it's a manufacture's "WEIGHT" number not the governments. The gov only cares about smog. Think about it, if it was a government concern, would they let you buy more GVWR? I'm gonna say no to that.
MadMav wrote: You just said it yourself. GVWR has only to do with emissions standards. The government doesn't CARE about GVWR on private vehicles otherwise. It's just a number. Just because you managed a group that licked the GVWR stamps and slaped them on the door jams does not mean you know the law, or the truth. The fact is it's a manufacture's "WEIGHT" number not the governments. The gov only cares about smog. Think about it, if it was a government concern, would they let you buy more GVWR? I'm gonna say no to that.
Mav
You obviously can't read - the labels say "Federal Safety and Emission standards"
Perhaps you would like to read up on some of them, particularly FMVSS-105 which defines brake system performance!!
As for the law - NOT knowing the law (as far as Vehicle Certification is concerned) was quite likely to put me in jail. And until I was convinced all the certifications were in place not one vehicle left a GM Assembly Plant. Yup, that label is a significant legal document. And they were installed at a rate of over 50,000 a day. Ya think I could lick 'em that fast?
Please describe YOUR professional qualifications that allow you to make such potentially dangerous statements.
Over and out!!
Offline
