daverich
Northwest Missouri
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Joined: 09/14/2006
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There are a whole lot of shoulda couldas, but it sounds like to me that he did one heck of a job missing a lot of automobiles in his wild run. There sure could have been several more lives lost.
It is to bad that it happened, but I hope his wife realizes what a good attempt he made to save lives after loosing control.
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bsinmich
Holland, MI
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Joined: 11/18/2000
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I don't see the need for different color brake fluids. At 2 years the fluid will have turned a little darker than the fresh. When we flush the fluid I sit in the MH and pump the brake while my SIL goes underneath and does the bleeding by manually opening the valve while I push the pedal to the floor. I hold the pedal in that position until the bleeder valve is closed and then pump up the pedal to repeat until the fluid comes totally clear. Pumping the brakes when you have boiling water in the lines or caliper doesn't do anything. You are still just compressing the same vapor each time. The only time pumping will help to build pressure is if you have a leak in your master cylinder that is letting fluid pass the piston. Stopping for a time does let your wheel, fluid, and everything else attached to that wheel to cool off and once the fluid has cooled you will have braking again until everything gets up in temp. again.
2003 Newmar Mountain Aire, Workhorse W22, & 2002 PT Cruiser w/Remco lube pump, Falcon 5250, & US Gear Unified Tow Brake
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bill h
coastal reconquista
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Joined: 08/02/2001
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bsinmich wrote:I don't see the need for different color brake fluids. At 2 years the fluid will have turned a little darker than the fresh.
I change my fluid yearly, and the difference in colors is much easier to see than the difference between year-old fluid and fresh. Changing fluid yearly might be overkill, but we go down some steep stuff and live near the ocean, and it is not difficult. I have used test strips to test two year-old fluid, and didn't like what I saw.
How many RVers test their brake fluid for moisture content?
Anyone know any racers? They change fluid a lot. Some every race weekend.
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Gale Hawkins
Murray, KY
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Joined: 07/22/2007
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I like the color change idea. When we did the transmission bucket flush it was really hard to see the color change from the 5 year old fluid vs the new at the time. After it got cold you could better tell the color difference.
As some of the research links I posted show really after one year the risk of brake fade is VERY high. I am guessing that fact may have played a roll in the death in the OP.
If you only go back and forth between Dexter and Sikeston MO then you can get by with changing it every 10-20 years. 
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bill h
coastal reconquista
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Gale Hawkins wrote:Bill that was a good idea they came up with. I know some of the racers change out several times a year just to keep the highest boil point possible. Is what you use DOT 3 or 4?
Both the ATE Super Blue and the Gold are DOT 4.
Quote:Do you find it takes you very long to do a complete flush on your MH. Do you just do it with the pedal or fancy equipment? Does a flush get it out of the wheel cylinder as well as the the lines and MC?
No, it doesn't take too long at all. Perhaps less than a half hour. I have used a sucker or the wife-on-pedal method. The biggest pain is getting out from under and refilling the reservoir, and being sure not to suck it dry. I always forget how many pedal strokes it takes before it needs topping, so there is some wasted motion there. I am going to buy Speed Bleeders soon. I have them on another vehicle, and they are well worth it.
With the location of the bleed screws on top, to be sure all the air is bled out, it would be difficult to be sure all the fluid in the caliper is replaced. I go a couple of pedal strokes after I see the new fluid, to allow some mixing of the new fluid with the old, and removing more of the old. I have considered removing the bleed screw completely to allow a tube to be stuck down inside to suck out old fluid, but never got beyond the wondering stage. The racers don't do it, so................But I like the idea. Next time I have things apart, I might take a close look.
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50pascals
rochester, ny
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Joined: 01/10/2008
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I recently bought a pressure bleeder system for another car and found it blows everything else away - PERIOD.
It is essentially a garden pump sprayer with a cap for your reservoir. You pump up the sprayer and it fills and pressurizes your reservoir. Then you simply open the screws. It will hold pressure a while and automatically fill the reservoir.
You do not necessarily need special caps. I use a flat piece of steel with two quick-grip clamps and a chunk of tire tube for a gasket.
It takes literally minutes to do the whole job.
BTW - We used to road race in SCCA A-sedan. We won lots of races and championships. Never changed our fluid after 3 seasons. The guys that change their fluid all the time are bored, plain and simple.
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Hookum
Tucson, Ariz.
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Joined: 08/01/2008
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obgraham wrote:Here's another question for you DP brake experts:
Let's say you've messed up by coming down a hill doing all the things we've agreed NOT to do. And now you have no air brakes and are careening down with full pants.
What will happen if you pop the yellow knob emergency brake? Is that brake system separate?
That little emergency knob only dumps the air in the system and then you use springs that push on the brake pads. Springs set the brake (parking) and air releases them.
Now if you loose all the air, like you said, when you get down to 60psi the springs set themselves. BUT they only set on the rear axle (not the front) with approx. 60psi of pressure.
Service brakes normally are pushing on the shoes with 90-120psi and they push on the front and the back axle. So you see, if you are pumping your brakes so often that you are dumping the air faster than they are being refilled, you are loosing more and more brake petal pressure and you are DOOMED anyway.
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BigRabbitMan
Dixon, CA
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Joined: 07/02/2005
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ShapeShifter wrote:Here's a technique question for the experts: I've had no problem dealing with long descents on the open road, just down shift and let the PacBrake handle it. But last year I was faced with a back country road that was narrow, twisty, and steep. From my GPS log, it looks like it dropped a bit over 150 feet in about half a mile, which I figure is about a 5% grade. The issue is that it was so narrow and twisty, I didn't want to take it at anything more than about 15 miles per hour -- any faster than that and I felt I wouldn't be able to stay on the road. The thing is, the PacBrake is useless at that speed. I just crept down the hill using the service brakes, and when I was at the bottom I could smell that the brakes were getting hot. I'm glad that was the end of the hill.
Other than avoid the hill, which is the obvious answer, what is the best way to handle such a situation? There was nowhere to stop and turn around -- simply not possible.
We're in the process of looking at some real estate, and there were a couple properties that we crossed off the list because they had roads similar to that one leading to them. There's no way I want to deal with a hill like that every time we hit the road!  What you describe here is not unusual here in California in the mountains. The answer is simply to put the brakes on one time until you are slow enough to get into first gear and then come on down. ANY time your are using your service brakes more often than every 5 min in my opinion you are in too high of a gear. I come down the grapevine in CA (7 miles of 4% followed by 6 miles of 7% and NEVER touch the brakes and I have a gasser (not a DP with exhaust brake). I was going south on Hwy 101 in Northern Calif with a lot of up and down and was approaching a town and decided I should test the brake pedal as I hadn't used it in a long time: I had been simply slipping the trans into a low gear on each down grade and only shifted UP if I was having to give it fuel to keep the engine up to reasonable RPM. If I am in a gear and need to use my brakes more than every five minutes, I am in too high of a gear. Now I have said that twice because if you follow that rule, you will never have a problem baring mechanical failure.
* This post was
edited 08/19/08 11:23pm by BigRabbitMan *
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bill h
coastal reconquista
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Joined: 08/02/2001
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Another issue for larger P30 drivers is the power steering pump and its belts. If you lose the power steering pump, you lose your power brakes, either right away or pretty soon. A perfect system gives you two applications if the pump quits. Some systems are not that good. Hydroboost and all that.
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westernstar
Very Very Farwest Oregon
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Joined: 10/15/2005
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OK now I read every one of these posts. Lots of ideas. I spent 20 plus yrs hauling logs on the Oregon coast. So I think I can tell you all something about brakes. 1st water is a good idea. Before the Jacobs was invented the venerable exhaust was in use. Good but to help it most of the truckers had a water tank mounted behind the cab. This tank would then be pressured up a couple of pounds, then when you had a long grade ahead you opened the valve which sent a stream of water onto the top of each drum. You turned it on before heat build up. This allowed us to really smoke down off of some impressive grades. many companies used both water and Jacobs for a while till the jake proved itself. If you do not have aux braking system go slow. To just fly off of a hill is stupid. Sully having a 3 way switch on a jake just allows you to select how many cylinders you wish to use for braking. 2-4 or 6. 6 be-ing full on. Thinking about this I dont see that it would be difficult to put water to the brakes. We have the tank, and the pump, just need solonoids and hoses to the wheels. Think about it -----no more runaways.
Savage Rapids Klamath river smoke from Happy Camp fires 07
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