lesmore49 wrote: I like hearing, reading about other's 'belief', even if I don't share a particular belief. Even more so, now that I'm newly retired. I find I have an increased capacity.
I believe retirement is GREAT! Bailed out a bit more than 2 years ago and haven't looked back. Congrats on making it, Les!
Thanks. Yes, retirement is great. I've been fielding the occasional call about what to do, from my replacement. Rather than getting all revved up about work, with the problems therein, well....now they are strictly of academic interest. A nice change.
It has also given me an opportunity to pursue my 'real' interests, such as photography, reading (stack of unread books just waiting), Fly fishing, traveling, studying the history, geology, flora, fauna, etc., of the Prairies / Great Plains and of course, I can't forget..... Cryptozoology .
sushidog wrote: Here's an interesting article that makes me believe that there is at least a huge possibility if not a probability that bigfoot exists.
Interesting story. I noted that the last census of the apes was done 20+ years ago and they are found in "remote Lac Tele Community Reserve in northern Republic of Congo, a vast area of swamp forest."
So the scientists knew the gorillas were there, but they are surprised by the numbers. That's a lot different than suddenly stumbling over 100,000 gorillas where no one expected them.
And it's a LOT different from finding a man-sized mammal (or larger, depending on whose story you believe) in the well-trampled lands of the United States.
True enough, but we are so used to built up urban areas that many people don't realize the vast areas of wilderness that remain in this country. I live between the Atchafalaya Basin to the west (the nations largest swamp) at 595,000 acres of virgin wilderness, and the Honey Island Swamp to the east (reputed home of the Honey Island Swamp Monster) at 70,000 acres of the same. North of my home is the Bogue Chitto National Wildlife Refuge, another 36,000 acres (where I saw my first black panther - the size of a large mountain lion.) I saw it run across a logging road in broad daylight (about 5pm), not 40 ft away. Stretched out running, it nearly reached across the road. From the tip of it's tail to it's front paws it was nearly the width of the road - I estimate 8-10 feet long. Is that a big enough mammal for you to remain "undiscovered"?
Surely such a vast, uninhabited wilderness of almost 3/4 of a million acres could hide a small breeding population of such beasts! It's certainly hiding the panthers quite well. There's quite enough plants and animals there to feed an army of them. And I'm sure that if they do in fact exist, there's barely enough to sustain a breeding population - maybe no more than a couple dozen. Let's see, that's about one every 30,000 acres. Looking for one would be like looking for a needle in a haystack, especially if they are highly intelligent, have exceptional senses, are nocturnal, well camouflaged, solitary, move around a lot and clearly don't want to be found.
Most "wildlife experts" don't even believe the cats are there (It's a black phase of the Florida panther that may range to Texas.) I understand why everyone is so skeptical, as it truly is hard to believe, at least until you've been there and seen for yourself.
sushidog wrote: Here's an interesting article that makes me believe that there is at least a huge possibility if not a probability that bigfoot exists.
Interesting story. I noted that the last census of the apes was done 20+ years ago and they are found in "remote Lac Tele Community Reserve in northern Republic of Congo, a vast area of swamp forest."
So the scientists knew the gorillas were there, but they are surprised by the numbers. That's a lot different than suddenly stumbling over 100,000 gorillas where no one expected them.
And it's a LOT different from finding a man-sized mammal (or larger, depending on whose story you believe) in the well-trampled lands of the United States.
True enough, but we are so used to built up urban areas that many people don't realize the vast areas of wilderness that remain in this country. I live between the Atchafalaya Basin to the west (the nations largest swamp) at 595,000 acres of virgin wilderness, and the Honey Island Swamp to the east (reputed home of the Honey Island Swamp Monster) at 70,000 acres of the same. North of my home is the Bogue Chitto National Wildlife Refuge, another 36,000 acres (where I saw my first black panther - the size of a large mountain lion.) I saw it run across a logging road in broad daylight (about 5pm), not 40 ft away. Stretched out running, it nearly reached across the road. From the tip of it's tail to it's front paws it was nearly the width of the road - I estimate 8-10 feet long. Is that a big enough mammal for you to remain "undiscovered"?
Surely such a vast, uninhabited wilderness of almost 3/4 of a million acres could hide a small breeding population of such beasts! It's certainly hiding the panthers quite well. There's quite enough plants and animals there to feed an army of them. And I'm sure that if they do in fact exist, there's barely enough to sustain a breeding population - maybe no more than a couple dozen. Let's see, that's about one every 30,000 acres. Looking for one would be like looking for a needle in a haystack, especially if they are highly intelligent, have exceptional senses, are nocturnal, well camouflaged, solitary, move around a lot and clearly don't want to be found.
Most "wildlife experts" don't even believe the cats are there (It's a black phase of the Florida panther that may range to Texas.) I understand why everyone is so skeptical, as it truly is hard to believe, at least until you've been there and seen for yourself.
You make a good point. I live in Manitoba and the northern part of the province and neighbouring North Western Ontario are very heavily forested in an absolutely enormous area.
I recall flying up on a little pusher from Winnipeg to The Pas, years ago. The pilot followed the Hydro (electrical) lines and we flew for a number of hours over dense forested land. Plenty of isolated lakes (our Province maintains that we have over 100,000 lakes, to give you an idea of the scale of this land), very few settlements, with the exception of a few First Nation reservations.
This area is still much the way it was 40 years ago, when I first flew this route.
I recall thinking at the time, that I sure hope we don't go down without a black box, because we would never be found in this vast, thickly wooded, boreal forest.
I've never really been convinced,that people from heavily populated urban or rural areas, that have not been to areas like this, can really conceive how vast and impenetrable some parts of our continent are.
If they were to experience these areas, it might give them a sense of how easily 'lost' things can be.
sushidog wrote: Surely such a vast, uninhabited wilderness of almost 3/4 of a million acres could hide a small breeding population of such beasts!
Except in the case of the gorillas, as soon as someone started looking for them, they found them. In the case of bigfoot, people have been looking for them with some very sophisticated equipment (night vision goggles, motion sensing cameras, etc.) for years.
So far, not even a foot of a bigfoot. Also, no corpses, nothing.
Only a very questionable video and a rubber ape suit.
At this point, I would put good money on it being not there, but I could always be wrong....
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Kooks and scam artists with a rubber suit and some suspect video from questionable sources certainly don't help their case any. But if 98% of the Bigfoot sightings are fake, lies or simple mistakes, that still leaves 2% that are real.
Consider this, I'm 52 yrs old and I've spent many years in the woods and swamps in Louisiana. I've seen quite a few unusual things in my time in the wild, but I've never seen the carcass of a bear or a fox. Now there are hundreds of bears and foxes in the swamp, but it's very unusual to find a carcass. In fact I can't recall finding a carcass of a deer that died of natural causes (excluding some sloppy hunters who lost their kills) - and there are thousands of deer here.
If Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) are a Hominid, perhaps they bury their dead, cover their tracks, and destroy their bedding when they leave; because they don't want to be found. Whereas the 100,000 gorillas they found weren't hiding.
When I was a young Army officer, we were required to take a survival evasion and escape course in the woods by Ft. Riley Kansas. Army rangers were sent to look for a small group of us released in a very small section of woods (no more than 200 acres) with only an hours head start. These soldiers were experts at tracking, and started just 1 hour past daybreak, yet they only located about 1/3 of us by sundown - the time allotted for is particular exercise. Now we had barely been trained, that's why we were there, but we didn't want to be found. That was the difference. With training from birth, and the senses and instincts of an wild animal, I dare say they wouldn't have found any of us - and we were forced to stay in this small area.
Maybe they don't really exist, and everyone who has ever claimed to see them for many generations is lying or mistaken. And all the ancient legends from around the world are false. I just think that the probability of that is very low indeed. IMHO
gasbag wrote: Bigfoot, a hoax. Wow. Who would have thunk it?
Like this news story is a big surpise!
Now, come on... you know there are people on this forum who fully believe in Big Foot. A quick scan of the subject in Search will show the truthfulness of that statement.
One can only wonder WHY people continue to believe.
Do you have proof positive he doesn't exist?
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gasbag wrote: Bigfoot, a hoax. Wow. Who would have thunk it?
Like this news story is a big surpise!
Now, come on... you know there are people on this forum who fully believe in Big Foot. A quick scan of the subject in Search will show the truthfulness of that statement.
One can only wonder WHY people continue to believe.
You bring up a interesting question, as to why people continue to believe, not just in Bigfoot, but really anything.
I for one, have always been someone who needs to see the evidence before I believe anything.
If the evidence is there I will believe, if it ain't, well the jury is out, until I see convincing evidence.
But the difference is, that some seem to derive great pleasure in pompously mocking that, that they don't believe. BTW, I'm not referring to your responses, which I think are quite thoughtful and objective.
I've always attempted (not always easy) to maintain an open mind, as it has been my experience in my life and through my academic training, that change and new ideas are always developing. We don't necessarily need to embrace them, nor should we shun them, but at the very least, subject them to critcal (emphasis on objective) review.
To automatically dismiss an idea, because I don't see ready, convincing evidence that I find acceptable is not "on" , IMO.
You never know if 'evidence' will show up down the road.
We don't really know everything about the World and to assume we do, is arrogant, in my view.
You might say I'm from Missouri, except of course I'm from Canada. But you know what I mean.
Well, a lot of people believe in God yet have no proof positive that he exists. The danger in waiting for proof positive evidence there, is by the time you get the proof positive evidence it may be too late to start believing. Then what?
sushidog wrote: Here's an interesting article that makes me believe that there is at least a huge possibility if not a probability that bigfoot exists.
It seems that scientists recently discovered that there are twice the number of western lowland gorillas in the Congo than previously thought. There is a group of about 100,000 previously undiscovered large primates (the number, not the species) that were not hiding, but were instead out in plain sight for anyone looking to see. Now, if this huge number of large primates remained undiscovered from inquiring scientists all these years, isn't it at least possible that a few, intelligent primates (whose sole existence hinges on them not being discovered) continue to remain hidden except for an occasional chance encounter?
Though I've never seen a bigfoot, I have seen black panthers here in Louisiana, on two separate occasion, over 30 miles apart. To this day wildlife experts deny their existence in Louisiana, in spite of numerous reports to the contrary. Granted, this is an elusive nocturnal animal that due to it's predatory nature is very stealthy and found in small numbers - similar to the way a bigfoot type creature would have to exist.
Healthy scepticism is good, because it forces us to seek for incontrovertible scientific evidence. Cynicism is bad because it closes our minds to the truth blinding us to new ideas and discoveries. Most importantly, arrogant self righteousness destroys the wonder of nature in our hearts and minds.
There are many things that we postulate exist because of the circumstantial evidence, testimony of credible individuals, logical assumptions, etc. We then set up experiments to search for evidence to confirm the reality of their existence. For example, the SETI people have been searching for radio transmissions indicating extraterrestrial intelligence exists (assuming that ET would use radio transmissions as we do) for many years. If they search for many more without finding any evidence does this prove that ET does not exist? Perhaps ET doesn't use radio waves to communicate as we do.
We will always look up at the glory of the universe and wonder, just as we will always wonder at what mystical undiscovered creatures lurk in the forests and oceans of the world. This quest for knowledge is what it means to be human.
I own some mountain land near Yosemite. There are mountain lions and bears that frequent by land and my neighbors property. I have seen foot prints, droppings, and dead animals that were feasted upon by the mountain lions, yet I have never seen a mountain lion or a bear in the wild. Do they exist?
sushidog wrote: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Kooks and scam artists with a rubber suit and some suspect video from questionable sources certainly don't help their case any. But if 98% of the Bigfoot sightings are fake, lies or simple mistakes, that still leaves 2% that are real.
That's been the argument the UFOnutz have been using for years.
The counter argument is that, with a bit more complete information, those 2% would equally be shown as "fakes, lies or simple mistakes."
The evidence for big foot is mostly anecdotal and whatever physical evidence exists is of marginal value in determining the reality of big foot. That physical evidence is - as the BFRO (Big Foot Field Researcher Organization) notes -
Quote: It is a fact that, for over seventy years, people have been finding, photographing, and casting sets of very large human-shaped tracks. Most are discovered by chance in remote areas. These tracks continue to be found to this day.
.
No scat, no pieces or parts of big foot, nothing that can be used as a source for DNA testing. And if you look at the map on BFRO.NET, it appears bigfoot is seen coast to coast!
msmith1199 wrote: Do you have proof positive he doesn't exist?
Do you have proof positive those little invisible, purple unicorns don't exist under your bed?
Or, as Sagan noted, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I've yet to see even the most mundane and ordinary evidence, much less extraordinary.
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