bondebond
Central Kansas
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Joined: 07/16/2008
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ShapeShifter wrote:lilhowlinwolf wrote:frank6160 wrote:It's illegal to refill propane canisters and transport them.
I don't know about it being illegal to refill the small canisters, but it sure is a pain in the butt.
The side of the 16.4 oz propane cylinder I have in front of me has several handling and storage warnings on the side. One of them is:
Quote:Never refill this cylinder. Refilling may cause explosion. Federal law forbids transportation if refilled - penalty up to $500,000 and five years imprisonment. (49 u.s.c 5124) Do not put on trains or passenger aircraft.
I did not add the bold, that's the way it's printed on the cylinder.
I have not looked up the cited regulation, but I would guess it deals with commercial transportation. I don't know how it would apply to a private individual who refilled a cylinder and transported it in their private vehicle. If someone is interested, perhaps they can look up the regulation and post back here.
I only post it to indicate that there is apparently a law in place about transportation of refilled disposable cylinders.
I did look up the citation and that section refers only to the punishments allowed for infringements of Section 5104, part B.
THAT section is described as follows:
Quote:Sec. 5104. Representation and tampering
(b) Tampering. - No person may alter, remove, destroy, or
otherwise tamper unlawfully with -
(1) a marking, label, placard, or description on a document
required under this chapter or a regulation prescribed under this chapter; or
(2) a package, component of a package, or packaging, container,motor vehicle, rail freight car, aircraft, or vessel used to transport hazardous material.
The entire rest of the Section does not directly or indirectly allude to anything relating to LPG or "refilling" of any container.
A case can easily be made that it does not address refilling of containers, only the tampering of the labelling and/or the actual packaging/container.
Refilling a container is not tampering or modifying the container. If, by filling the container (increasing internal pressure of the LPG), then you have done the same in reverse by expelling the LPG during a cooking or lighting process. Either way, you are guilty of the same crime.
If adding gas to a container is an actionable offense, so is removing gas from the same container.
Myself, The Boss, and two wanna-be Bosses
2006 Jayco 1007
There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't.
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trumptman88
Beaumont, CA.
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I use all white-gas equipment because as others have noted, propane seems much more sensitive to elevation and temp. Most of my Coleman equipment is 30+ years old and still does great. If your items aren't working they probably need some oil in the pump which is all I have ever had to do for mine.
I taught the wife well and she can operate all the equipment very well. They seem very economical on fuel as well. Most trips I just top them off and there is still plenty of fuel left when we return around four days later. I filled the stove once in the middle of a ten day trip in which it was usually used for two meals a day.
Propane is tolerable if you want to go the tree route. I just can't get over the whole green bottle thing. It feels wasteful to me (doesn't seem like every place has a way to recycle them) and I don't like not knowing how much fuel is left. We do use them on a small propane grill and they do a good enough job until you run into their limitations. Mine remind me of this mostly in January and February when I am freezing my tail off outside wondering why the grill won't get the darn chicken breasts done. Those trips tend to be in the trailer and with full-hook ups so I got the wife a George Foreman electric grill to back us up on those occasions.
You must go... to where the Rooster Crows
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lilhowlinwolf
MB/Panama
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Joined: 12/09/2006
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ShapeShifter wrote: Do not put on trains
That part is hilarious. It's how we get our goods and supplies!
Wolf
Home 56.16°N -96.9°W ~ Wall 12 man and Eureka 6 man Egyptian cotton tent ~ Winter S/V Porque No 7.25°N -80.8°W //Mitakuye oyasin!
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cdawley1
McDonough, GA, USA
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Joined: 06/27/2004
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Hi,
I like all of the feedback that I have gotten on this topic and hope that it will help others such as myself and new-comers to read about the gas and propane stoves. I took the advice of JudoJeff and bought a propane adapter for my stove. I found it at Wal-Mart for $18.88. It is a Century Propane Regulator (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___86801). Hope everyone can view the link. I put it on the stove and tested it out and it works like a brand new stove. I also don't have to worry about it coming out of socket because the spring clips onto the stove to hold it in place. There are a couple of reasons I like this. One is that I can still use my gas later and the other is that I don't have to worry about pumping and pressurizing the gas to get it to light, not to mention that the generator for the stove is about 11.00 to replace in the stove. My stove is the Coleman 425. Even though it is vintage, the small propane adapter adds new technology without making modifications.
2003 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab 3.9L V6
Ozark Trails 10x13 Dome Tent (sleeps 6)
2 adults, 3 children (2 girls, 1 boy)
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tvme
Medina, Ohio
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Joined: 04/10/2007
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Thanks for the update on the propane conversion. Double burner white gas Colemans in good condition are going for about $10 at fleamarkets in my area- lanterns too.
I've got a two burner propane cheapy almost identical to one currently being sold by Walmart. When it "dies", I'll consider converting an older white gas model.
Good luck,
Bob
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cdawley1
McDonough, GA, USA
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Hi,
I saw something that was very interesting. I had my Coleman propane lantern with a propane bottle hooked up to it and was setting up my tent to get ready to water proof it. I had my lantern on, as it was getting a little dark out in the back yard. I let the lantern cool down before putting it up. As I was putting it up, I noticed that the bottle was Made in USA. I bought the bottle as a 2pk at the local Wal-Mart and it just reads Propane Fuel on the front. When I turned it around to read the label, I noticed that it was marketed by the Coleman Company. Does this mean that the "off brand" propane cylinders sold at Wal-Mart is actually made by Coleman, even though it doesn't have Coleman's name on it?
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frank6160
Alabama
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Joined: 04/07/2007
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Coleman had the contract till a few months ago it went to Canada I think is what we were told. I toured the Coleman plant in June and saw them making the bottles and lanterns,stoves,coolers. They now have a contract with bernzamatic so when you see those at your hardware store you will know they are Coleman.
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lilhowlinwolf
MB/Panama
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Coleman owns the patents.
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tplife69
SoCal
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You'll pay dearly every time you buy new propane cylinders! The only reason I used propane for 25 years was because I have small children and there are safety advantages of propane - but those are the only real advantages. Propane is 70% more expensive than white gas and even more so than unleaded gas. Propane cylinders are heavy and unlike gas can't be used for other purposes. Propane doesn't work well at high altitudes or in bitter cold. MSR as mentioned above makes great red spun aluminum cylinders for transporting gas in motorcycles or in car trunks with camping gear. I switched to white gas now that my children are older and I'm sure not going back to old-school propane! I've got the old "Tree" and the hoses and junk and it sits in boxes or hangs on my garage wall with the other junk. If your lanterns don't work anymore, it's probably because you've been storing fuel in them when not in use (a definite no-no) or ran them long enough to require changing out the generator, an easily aquired spare part off the internet or at REI. Unleaded gas will run just fine, the disadvantage is the generator won't last as long. If you would simply read the instructions that come with your white gas appliances from Coleman, they WILL last a lifetime.
Coleman lanterns are inexpensive, I've bought 2 model 288 lanterns off Ebay for $25 each NEW. BTW, Coleman sells a world-class telescoping lantern stand. You just can't hang anything on anything any more in campgrounds without getting chewed out by a ranger. I still use a propane campstove, as I haven't switched over yet - but I'm going to!!! 
People's Republik of Kalifornia
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lilhowlinwolf
MB/Panama
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tplife69 wrote:Propane doesn't work well at high altitudes or in bitter cold.
I'm at 9780ft this week and my LP worked just fine. What doesn't work at high altitude is Butane. White gas works everywhere.
Quote:You just can't hang anything on anything any more in campgrounds without getting chewed out by a ranger.
Back Country Rangers are almost never seen out West, unless you are inside a National Park.
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