rowekmr
Chicago
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Hello Group
I have had a 31 TT for about a year and am considering switching up into a Class C (28' and longer) and had a few questions on after looking at a few used ones from the 1996 and up vintage. Which engine gets better mpg the V-10 (Ford) or Chevy's 454? Why don't I see any diesels in the the van cutaways since they were available in the van for those years? Do they usually come with levelling jacks? Is there anything I should look for or anything that I should avoid?
Thanks
Joe
00 Excursion Limited 4X4 V-10 4.30 ratio
Prodigy controller, Equalizer hitch
08 Jayco 31 BHDS G2
06 Ford Explorer Limited 4X4 4.6L (pulls boat)
1 Wife 3 kids
97 Regal Commodore 258 w/twin 3.0's (8K on trailer)
79 Piper Arrow IV (sold for TT)
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ron.dittmer
Near Chicago
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Joined: 02/26/2007
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According to the repies I read here.....
Chevy
- gets better gas mileage, about 1 mpg better than the Ford V10
- has more leg room
- the engine is more quiet when climbing and engine braking
Ford V10 (especially 2006 and newer with the 5-speed torque shift transmission)
- handles a bigger load better, engine, transmission, and chassis
- front of chassis itself is 9" shorter than a Chevy, making the RV portion bigger or over-all length shorter
The oldest Ford V10s until around 2003, had the engine heads popping out spark plugs because of not having enough threads for them. In 2008, Ford improved brakes, suspension, and weight capabilities even more. They are the ones with the big dump truck front grill. If you plan to buy a big one or tow something, a later Ford is generally the better choice.
About the gas milage. I think the Chevy gets a little better because they generally carry a smaller/lighter RV on it's back.
I have a small RV 9200 pound, 23.5 footer on a 2007 Ford V10 E350 chassis. I invested in $4000 of suspension upgrades to change the handling from a motorhome to an SUV. Well worth the money to us, but others are very happy with much less.
You mentioned a 28 footer. I would think "Ford-V10" 2003 or newer. Ford did offer a diesel over the years, but very expensive so few are out there. I don't know about Chevy.
Leveling jacks are not common on Class-Cs. A few have them on this forum, and love them. Others don't and do well without them.
About class-Cs in general. They are generally built close to their carrying limit, so heavy slide-outs & leveling jacks reduce the margin significantly. Watch that when shopping. A few are at capacity right from the show room, and get over-loaded when people and gear are added. A 28 footer with one slide-out and no leveling jacks, generally will be fine.
You didn't mention about the RV portion. Construction method is very important. Here are things you'll want in general to avoid water issues. You live by me so your RV will see tempertures below zero at times. This will be especially hard on caulked seam work, so the following is even more important.
- a domed roof is stronger for snow with no puddling of water around heavy items like the rooftop a/c, turning to ice destroying a good seal
- fiberglass roof has the least trouble in every way
- one piece rear fiberglass cap that wraps around to the sides of the RV, makes for a more rigid shell with fewer seam leaks
- cabover beds generally leak as they age, no matter what brand you get. If you can easily do without that bed, then do without, and get an aero-dynamic cabover fiberglass cap. Around here, we call them B+s, not Cs. If you got to have a cabover, avoid a front window. They leak with age, are cold at night and hot in the day.
- RV framework constructed using wood is unstable, encouraging leaks with change of seasons. The ideal alternative is typically a steel box beam floor and aluminum studded walls
We own one of These which I feel is constructed very well for Chicago weather. Watch their virtual tour Here to get a good idea of a well made RV. There are many good RVs out there. Get educated to recognize them, and stay away from the others. You don't want to be dealing with winter water leaks turning into spring mold.
PS: turn up the volume when watching the tour.
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Bought new in June 2007, Phoenix Cruiser-2350
Fits inside our garage.
Dingy towing a red Toyota MR2 Spyder
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joanne0012
Boston, MA
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Joined: 02/01/2005
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ron.dittmer wrote: ... Construction method is very important. Here are things you'll want in general to avoid water issues. You live by me so your RV will see tempertures below zero at times. This will be especially hard on caulked seam work, so the following is even more important.
- a domed roof is stronger for snow ...
- fiberglass roof has the least trouble in every way...
- cabover beds generally leak as they age, no matter what brand you get. If you can easily do without that bed, then do without, and get an aero-dynamic cabover fiberglass cap. ...
- RV framework constructed using wood is unstable, encouraging leaks with change of seasons. The ideal alternative is typically a steel box beam floor and aluminum studded walls...
My flat aluminum roof and wood construction (with some steel reinforcement bars) are just fine after 14 years of spending most winters in New England. Whatever the construction, proper maintenance including preventive recaulking is essential and the quality of the original construction can make a big difference.
IMHO, the Class C cabover is vulnerable based on its nature , regardless of what's up there, so check that area especially carefully when inspecting a used unit.
Joanne
1994 Lazy Daze 23.5' TK
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ChrisFSB
CA
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Joined: 09/08/2008
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Hi Ron,
>> I invested in $4000 of suspension upgrades to change the handling from a motorhome to an SUV
Could you elaborate on the upgrades you did? I have recently purchased a 2008 Winnebago 31' Access on a 2008 Ford E450 Chassis. I don't enjoy the driving experience as much as I would if it handled like my 2002 Yukon XL...
Any insight would be appreciated.
Thanks, Chris.
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ron.dittmer
Near Chicago
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Joined: 02/26/2007
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ChrisFSB wrote:Could you elaborate on the upgrades you did? I have recently purchased a 2008 Winnebago 31' Access on a 2008 Ford E450 Chassis. I don't enjoy the driving experience as much as I would if it handled like my 2002 Yukon XL...Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Chris. Chris,
Understand there is a significant difference between our 2007 E350 and your 2008 E450 straight from the Ford factory. The upgrades we had done will be less effective on your particular RV. Still I think you will benefit, just not as much. You also have a heavier rig that is wider, taller, and longer than ours.
Here is what we had done on our 2007 Phoenix Cruiser, model 2350, built on a 2007 Ford E350 chassis. The RV weighs 9200 pounds before water, people and gear.
1) front wheel alignment using offset bushings to get the camber corrected properly. This alignment considered a 1/4" to 1/2" road slant to the right which roads typically have for water run-off
2) Our E350 chassis straight from Ford had a 1" front sway bar. We replaced it with a heavy duty Roadmaster 1-3/8" sway bar with poly bushings. Your chassis has only a 7/8" front sway bar, so you may benefit as well from the upgrade.
3) Our E350 chassis had NO rear sway bar at all, so adding a heavy duty Roadmaster 1-1/2" sway bar with poly bushings contributed greatly. Yours already has a 1-1/8" rear bar with rubber bushings, so the effects will be less dramatic.
4) We replaced our stock steering stabilizer with one made by Safe-T-Plus.
5) We replaced our 4 original shock absorbers with Koni-RV shocks. They are adjustable. Ours are set to the stiffest setting.
6) We added a rear Henderson trac bar. This bar mounts between the rear differential and the frame in a near horizontal position. It eliminates the rear end from tail-wagging. This is especially beneficial when towing a vehicle.
The $4000 price tag included skilled labor at a local truck & RV suspension shop.
Our RV had only 800 miles on it at the time all the improvements were made. I have all the original, almost brand new parts in my basement. Four shocks, a steering stabilizer, a front sway bar, rubber bushings and lots of hardware, just sitting around collecting dust. I tried to sell it on ebay, but got no interest. I'll be donating it all to a local charity I volunteer at, when they get an old donated Ford E250 or E350 E450 needing these parts. The same parts are used on all 3 chassis, vans, box trucks, motorhomes, etc.
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ChrisFSB
CA
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Joined: 09/08/2008
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Thanks Ron - that's really helpful information.
I'm thinking of upgrading the shocks and installing the Safe-T-Plus as those seem like the most significant upgrades.
Thanks again, Chris.
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rowekmr
Chicago
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Joined: 11/22/2007
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Hey thanks that was a lot of info to help get me going on. I now have a better idea of what to look for.
ron.dittmer wrote:According to the repies I read here.....
Chevy
- gets better gas mileage, about 1 mpg better than the Ford V10
- has more leg room
- the engine is more quiet when climbing and engine braking
Ford V10 (especially 2006 and newer with the 5-speed torque shift transmission)
- handles a bigger load better, engine, transmission, and chassis
- front of chassis itself is 9" shorter than a Chevy, making the RV portion bigger or over-all length shorter
The oldest Ford V10s until around 2003, had the engine heads popping out spark plugs because of not having enough threads for them. In 2008, Ford improved brakes, suspension, and weight capabilities even more. They are the ones with the big dump truck front grill. If you plan to buy a big one or tow something, a later Ford is generally the better choice.
About the gas milage. I think the Chevy gets a little better because they generally carry a smaller/lighter RV on it's back.
I have a small RV 9200 pound, 23.5 footer on a 2007 Ford V10 E350 chassis. I invested in $4000 of suspension upgrades to change the handling from a motorhome to an SUV. Well worth the money to us, but others are very happy with much less.
You mentioned a 28 footer. I would think "Ford-V10" 2003 or newer. Ford did offer a diesel over the years, but very expensive so few are out there. I don't know about Chevy.
Leveling jacks are not common on Class-Cs. A few have them on this forum, and love them. Others don't and do well without them.
About class-Cs in general. They are generally built close to their carrying limit, so heavy slide-outs & leveling jacks reduce the margin significantly. Watch that when shopping. A few are at capacity right from the show room, and get over-loaded when people and gear are added. A 28 footer with one slide-out and no leveling jacks, generally will be fine.
You didn't mention about the RV portion. Construction method is very important. Here are things you'll want in general to avoid water issues. You live by me so your RV will see tempertures below zero at times. This will be especially hard on caulked seam work, so the following is even more important.
- a domed roof is stronger for snow with no puddling of water around heavy items like the rooftop a/c, turning to ice destroying a good seal
- fiberglass roof has the least trouble in every way
- one piece rear fiberglass cap that wraps around to the sides of the RV, makes for a more rigid shell with fewer seam leaks
- cabover beds generally leak as they age, no matter what brand you get. If you can easily do without that bed, then do without, and get an aero-dynamic cabover fiberglass cap. Around here, we call them B+s, not Cs. If you got to have a cabover, avoid a front window. They leak with age, are cold at night and hot in the day.
- RV framework constructed using wood is unstable, encouraging leaks with change of seasons. The ideal alternative is typically a steel box beam floor and aluminum studded walls
We own one of These which I feel is constructed very well for Chicago weather. Watch their virtual tour Here to get a good idea of a well made RV. There are many good RVs out there. Get educated to recognize them, and stay away from the others. You don't want to be dealing with winter water leaks turning into spring mold.
PS: turn up the volume when watching the tour.
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ron.dittmer
Near Chicago
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Joined: 02/26/2007
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ChrisFSB wrote:Thanks Ron - that's really helpful information.
I'm thinking of upgrading the shocks and installing the Safe-T-Plus as those seem like the most significant upgrades.
Thanks again, Chris. Start with a wheel alignment. Most people do that alone and say "WOW, All Better Now". A good wheel alignment will save your front tires too, so they will pay for themselves.
If not satisfied after the wheel alignment, do what you mentioned second. If the results are still not good enough, then replace the front sway bar.
I should have mentioned, Helwig makes the same spec'd front and rear sway bars as Roadmaster for much less money. People on RV.net have said they work great too. The only issue was with a few simple nuts & bolts. They had to run to a local hardware store to complete the job.
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rowekmr
Chicago
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Joined: 11/22/2007
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Speaking of suspension mods I have seen on some older models (97 and up) that the owner has put an air bag assist on the rear suspension. How useful are they and what kind of improvement is expected. Also I have driven box trucks in the past and when going over bumps you can hear the box move against the frame, do class C's have that same problem? Are there a lot of body/frame noises when going over irregularities?
Thanks
ron.dittmer wrote:ChrisFSB wrote:Thanks Ron - that's really helpful information.
I'm thinking of upgrading the shocks and installing the Safe-T-Plus as those seem like the most significant upgrades.
Thanks again, Chris. Start with a wheel alignment. Most people do that alone and say "WOW, All Better Now". A good wheel alignment will save your front tires too, so they will pay for themselves.
If not satisfied after the wheel alignment, do what you mentioned second. If the results are still not good enough, then replace the front sway bar.
I should have mentioned, Helwig makes the same spec'd front and rear sway bars as Roadmaster for much less money. People on RV.net have said they work great too. The only issue was with a few simple nuts & bolts. They had to run to a local hardware store to complete the job.
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