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Forum
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RE: Why doesn't GVWR = front + rear GAWR ? White lies ?
Another question is, Why is it you can register a vehicle for more GVWR than is on the placard on the door if it was simply illegal to exceed manufacturer set GVWR?
Good point.
Some states incuding Oklahoma doesn't register a personel truck for GVW/GVWR. That line is left blank. Now if the line for GVWR has numbers on it then its a commercial registration. For example in OK a 3/4 or one ton truck can be registered up to 15k GVWR max. But thats not how much load the truck can carry. The higer GVWR registration is for a higher combined (GCW) plates. Remember the trucks GVWR plus the trailer GVWR = GCW.
This from CA DOT on vehicle weights:
3. Q - Can I declare an operating weight higher than my vehicle's Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)?
A- Yes, but only if you are declaring the weight of your vehicle in combination with a towed vehicle and its load (the Combined Gross Weight). NOTE: A declared Combined Gross Weight does not authorize a truck without another vehicle in tow to exceed the truck's authorized axle weight limits.
Michigan DOT has more input on GVWR;
Question 9: Is it a violation if the actual loaded weight of a motor vehicle or combination of vehicles exceeds the GVWR or GCWR specified by the manufacturer?
Guidance: No, as long as the allowable load limits established by federal, state or local jurisdictions have not been exceeded.
All states have simular laws concerning the use of GVWR or I should say the lack of use. But all state are tied to axles and tires FMVSS/NHTSA/DOT for loads on the vehicle.
Loads on the truck axles is determined by its GAWRs. Not GVWR. Granted new folks to towing trailers probably should use GVWR till they aquire more experience at towing a big trailer. But thats another topic.
This ties in with the OP question on why doesn't FAWR/RAWR = GVWR. It doesn't have to as each have a different job. The vehicle axles and tires carry the weight and GVWR is used for how much weight can be pulled.
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JIMNLIN
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03/20/10 02:46pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Weighed the TV and got a shock
Some 3500 DRW diesel 4x4 ownwers are shocked at what their trucks weigh. Many are over 8000 lbs especially a Ford 4x4 tow boss aux fuel tank.
What were your front and rear axle weight numbers as that will determine how much pin weight the trucks rear axle/tires can carry ?? Fords are a heavy truck.
Most 2500 diesel 4x4 trucks weigh in the 7200+ range with the GM a bit lighter than the Ford or Dodge. My 2wd Dodge/Cummins in sig weighs 4045 lbs on the front and 2775 lbs on the rear for 6820 lbs total. That leave me with 3200 lb for a max rear axle payload.
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JIMNLIN
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03/20/10 09:53am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Tire condition Examples
A couple of points.
On a multi axle trailer the tire thats flat still has a load on it. Thats why the wheel with the flat tire will eventually cut the tire from the rim if it travels far enough.
My 5er in sig has 3/'03 DOT dated BFG Commercial LT tires. I keep Tire Care sprayed on them. Also my 16k equipment trailer with '00 DOT dated tires. Great stuff.
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JIMNLIN
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03/20/10 07:34am |
Tech Issues
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RE: trailer tires
Kumho 857 radials are advertized as a commercial tread.
Maxxis shows a 14" LT that they claim is a commercial grade highway tire. I would go with a LT as your not limited to 65 mph as ST tires are.
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JIMNLIN
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03/20/10 07:00am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Why doesn't GVWR = front + rear GAWR ? White lies ?
Why would GAWRs have to equal the vehicles GVWR ?
They don't as they have two different jobs. Thats why DOT/NHTSA require the manufactures to certify the vehicle at its GVWR and the GAWRs. Thats why brakes are tested at a minimum at the vehicles FAWR and RAWR per the FMVSS/NHTSA/DOT regs.
GVWR doesn't carry weight as thats the function of the trucks GAWR/tires. In the case of a pickup just about 100 percent of a GN ball or 5th wheel pin weight goes on the trucks rear axle/tires.
LTL on the commercial side will use the door tag GVWR for declaring combined weight registration if the operator doesn't have a uprate GVW/ladin/tonnage option in his state.
Many RVers seem hung up on using GVWR to figure axle loads which is fine but its only about 80 percent of the trucks GAWR/tire payload capacity.
This from FHWA web 23 CFR 658.5 Definitions Q&A;
Are recreational vehicles subject to Interstate axle weight limits?
Yes.
The vehicles GVWR isn't mentioned anywhere.
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JIMNLIN
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03/19/10 08:21pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Known overweight failures
I know there has been alot of information on what people says a 2500 truck can haul, but I would like to know about real failures. Who has had truck failures by pulling a fiver that is to heavy. Like to hear what the failure was and what truck and camper was being used. Was there any other influences in the incident. Just curious.
Failures can happen to trucks that don't pull anything other than a small two wheel trailer lawn trailer IF the proper maintenance hasn't been done. Many burbs/SUVs/etc never pull anything and they can heve issues.
On the flip side I've used LDT (2500 up to 3500 DRWs) to haul commercially (long time ago) legally at 28k-32k combined plates. That requires the truck to be loaded to its max GAWRs. Over those numbers and we can be put out of service. I always run them up to 150k miles before selling them and put a newer truck in service.
The only truck I had issues with was a '82 chevy 3500 DRW truck that ate starters like crazy. Dealer say heat from the exhaust manifolds which glow cherry red at nite when pulling hard. GM came out with a insulating shield for the 454 trucks and cured my problems.
With over 800k miles pulling those weights with mostly 3500 DRW trucks I have been down with mechanical failure only twice. Once was a the drivers side wheel centers let go on the front end and no the truck wasn't over its FAWR/tire ratings. The other time was my first truck I put in service was a '78 GMC 3500 that had over 90k. Broke a timming chain. I bought in used so I had no idea what the service life was. I was just getting started and needed a cheap truck.
Most issues I've read or heard about on a RV web are usually the std duty 1500 size trucks/vans/SUVs/ and smaller vehicles having tranny issues. These size vehicles don't usually have the heavy duty cooling packages on the tranny/radiator like the 2500HD and larger trucks. Although the newer gen small trucks/SUVs/vans/etc do a better job in that area.
Load the 3/4 ton truck to its max GAWRs/tire cap and use the manufactures max tow ratings for how much the 3/4 ton truck can pull and it should operate at its max advertized life WITH the proper maintenance. Commercial haulers do it so why can't RVers do it.
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JIMNLIN
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03/19/10 07:22am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Hitch Pin Tripod - Worthwile?
This will be our first year in a 5er, and I'm wondering if the tripod you see under some hitch pins is worthwile. Any advice or shared experience would be appreciated. Thanks.
Many campsites may require the front of the 5er to be quite high. that means running the landing gear legs out a long ways. The front of the 5er can get wobbley.
I've had mine since the early '80s. I use mine to stabilize the front of the 5er for eliminating side to side motion. I use Bal stabilizers at the rear that eliminates side to side/up and down motion and adjustable chocks between the tires for fore and aft movement. I've had Meniere's disease and can't tolerate any trailer movement.
Will you need them ? Their just a tool to help stabilize the front of the 5er. Not the whole trailer.
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JIMNLIN
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03/18/10 07:23pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Putting a real hitch receiver on
The last two 5ers I had I went with a custom fabed hitch. I went with a weld/fab shop that does that kind of work. The reciever was fabed and welded to the 5ers main frame rails and saved the thin wall storage bumper. I prefere welding to bolting especially on the back of a trailer.
I pulled a 3500 bass boat behind both 5ers. No issues.
As others say if your current trailer is still under warranty chck with the manufacture. Some manufactures may void the frame warranty.
Do the states your operating in allow RV doubles ??
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JIMNLIN
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03/18/10 06:57pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Dumb tire question?????
Trailer tire pressure especially for a 16k trailer should be 80 psi or the max on the tires sidewall. I would keep them pumped to the max 24/7. They will operate cooler/pull easier/last longer than one underinflated.
Goodyear has minimum pressure charts for a RV such as a class C or class A or a van camper/etc make a good starting point to find the best tire pressure for your particulr vehicle/load.
Goodyear has a max tire pressure recommendation for a RV trailers which have their tires in the middle of a big heavy box vs tires on a truck/SUV/MH/van with tires at the cornors. Apples vs oranges operating inviroment.
Special Considerations
RV TRAILER TIRES
"Unless trying to resolve poor ride quality problems with an RV trailer, it is recommended that trailer tires be inflated to the pressure indicated on the sidewall of the tire. Trailer tires experience significant lateral (side-to-side) loads due to vehicle sway from uneven roads or passing vehicles. Using the inflation pressure engraved on the sidewall will provide optimum load carrying capacity and minimize heat build-up."
I've always ran max sidewall pressure on all my trailers including my RVs. Now if I had E tire on a 3500 lb axle and a light load then common sense/experience says the tire won't need max pressure.
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JIMNLIN
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03/18/10 06:42pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: 32' vs. 35'
Hopefully the 35 footer will be a light as your present 5er as some 35' 5ers will overload your 2500 trucks rear axles/tires pretty quick.
LOL
This from a non weight police member.
:o :W
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JIMNLIN
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03/18/10 06:14pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Tires, Tires, Tires
I am also looking to replace my Marathons (ST235/80 R16) but nobody else makes this tire size. Is there any reason the Michelin XPS RIB LT225/75 R16 wouldn't be an acceptable substitute?
Its all about weight carrying capacity. The LT225/75-16 E has 2680 lbs of carrying capacity. A ST235/80-16 E may have 3400 lbs of carrying capacity. We don't know what your axle rating or gross axle weight on the trailer is so you will have to do the math.
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JIMNLIN
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03/18/10 06:31am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: 32' vs. 35'
Hopefully the 35 footer will be a light as your present 5er as some 35' 5ers will overload your 2500 trucks rear axles/tires pretty quick.
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JIMNLIN
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03/18/10 06:19am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Am I ok?
My 2500 Dodge/Cummins pulls a 11200 GVWR 5er in sig. It has a 2200 lb wet pin weight. The truck is 900 lbs under its rear axle/tire weight rating. Front axle loads changes little if any with pin weights from a 5er.
The truck will be fine with that size 5er. If your pin weight was in the 3000+ range then the trucks rear axle/tires may be exceeded.
You sound intimadated by the size of a 5er. Are you sure you will be comfortable towing a 5th wheel trailer ?
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JIMNLIN
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03/18/10 06:15am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Can I pull TT with my 1/2 Ton
I have a 2007 1/2 ton Chevrolet and found a great deal on a 31 foot 6,500 pound travel trailer. Can I pull it with my truck. I have used some spreadsheets provided by the weight police and believe that I may not be able to. What do you think?
As a couple of other posters have mentioned without any spec numbers on the truck/trailer all your getting is speculation,
What size engine does the truck have ?? What GVWR is the trucks ?? What gear ratio does the truck have ?? What is the trailer GVWR ??
1500 trucks are a very capable truck to pull TTs that are within its tow rating. I use a '06 chevy 1500 with the 5.3 engine 3.73 axle to pull a 8500 lb trailer with a tractor/FEL. I've made trips out to 285 miles and the 1500 truck handles it very well. No it won't keep up with the Cummins in sig pulling the same trailer, but I didn't expect it to.
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JIMNLIN
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03/17/10 12:34pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Difference in Tow ratings between TT and Fifth Wheels
I would like to know so I can get my limitations on what kind of 5th wheel I can purchase. Thanks for any help out there. It would be greatly appreciated. I have a 2005 6.6L turbo Diesel GMC Sierra 2500HD
I believe the 12000 lb figure is the max for a TT (bumper pull). According to Edmunds the '06 2500 Dmax/A can tow a 5er up to 15000-15500 lbs depending on cab/2wd vs 4wd/etc.
Gm gives your 2500 truck a 6084 RAWR/tire capacity for carrying weights from a 5er which sets over the trucks rear axle. According to GM weight calculator most 2500 trucks rear axle, with the Dmax, weighs 2670 lbs which leaves you with approx a 2600-2800 lb for a pin weight. That will be a max axle/tire cap number and I would stay under them.
Now look at 5er that weighs under 15000 lbs (or whatever GMs tow rating is) with a WET pin weight (not a manufactures dry pin weight)under 2600-2800 lbs.
Weighing a trucks front and rear axle weights is necessary for finding max axle/tire loads.
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JIMNLIN
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03/17/10 07:40am |
Towing
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RE: Tow weight.
A 2 car carrier IS A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE. None of this applies to RV's !!!!
I have a flatdeck trailer that I can haul two cars on and I'm not commercial at this time. RVs, as any non commercial vehicle, have weight regs also.
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JIMNLIN
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03/17/10 07:15am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Michelin vs Michelin
FastEagle
p.s. Because the XPS RIB is not designed for or recommended by Michelin for use on the RV trailer this is as close as you can get with the warranty. You will have a very hard time convincing a Michelin warranty rep. that your trailer is a commercial vehicle.
:R Typical FS myth that has been disproven more than once. Michelin does indeed recommend the XPS Rib for use on any trailer types including RVs.
Recommendations from MIchelin to me were from a 1-800 Michelin tire tire service rep. OTher folks have posted emails. Heres one from Joe ?? and I hope he doesn't mind me posting his email responce from Michelin to one more time dispell some of the myth/incorrect info from FS :
MICHELINS XPS RIBS RESPONCE
"OK this is not to stir things up, and most people on here already know the XPS Rib is a great tire. It was brougt up in a thread that the XPS Rib is not for use on trailers so I emailed Michelin to get a response to this matter.
Email response was:
Quote:
Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.
Joe,
The Michelin XPS Rib can be used for recreational vehicles, trailer
travelers and pick up trucks. This is an all around tire for many different applications. I hope this answer your question. Again, thank you for being a Michelin consumer.
It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-800-847-3435 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 9:00AM and 5:00PM Eastern Time on Saturday.
Michelin North America
Consumer Care Department :quote" .
Michelin vs Michelin.
They have several lines of LT tires as does just about any quality tire maker. I always call their tire rep and ask for their recommendation on which particular LT tire do they recommend for trailer use (any type). Some only recommenda a certain line of LT tires. Most won't recommend a MT type tire especially with the bigger tread blocks like a real Mud tire. The Michelin MT has a small tread block design that works pretty well on wet pavement in a trailer position.
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JIMNLIN
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03/17/10 06:05am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Carl Edwards
Racing for position with fender rubbin'/bumper bumpin' is part of NASCAR. What Carl did wasn't surprising as he does have a anger problem as his past shows. It would do Carl some good if Kes took him out "on purpose" next time. Paybacks are hell, let the show go on.
NASCAR blew a good chance to put a end to Carls bullying others on the track by not suspending him for a few races.
BUT stay tuned till next race as NASCAR is hoping this will sell more tickets.
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JIMNLIN
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03/16/10 06:52pm |
Around the Campfire
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RE: 2006 Chevy 1500 Crew Cab
Thanks everyone for your input. I think I'm going to go with the truck, but I'm going to shy away from the 3.42 gears. I saw a chevy crew cab vortec max that looks like its ready for towing with a 6.0 liter gas and i think it had 4.10 gears. Pretty nice truck. We'll have to see if I can get the DW on board. Thats half the battle:)
Now your talikng. The 6.0 is hands down a stronger tow engine than the 5.3 engine.
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JIMNLIN
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03/16/10 06:39pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Wheels
Trailer wheels are lug cenrered and hold all the weight. The center hole is for clearance so the 3.3 diameter hole should work. Just make sure the 15" wheels are 65 psi rated for your D tires.
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JIMNLIN
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03/16/10 06:16pm |
Travel Trailers
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