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RE: heavy GVWR towing, at what speeds do you do?
Ok, so if the factory put ratings, ie trailer tow ratings because of performance, how come my old 96 GM, pulled the same TT every bit as well, usually better! as my 88 ext cab GM, but the 96 CC weighed some 1000 lbs more overall. The 96 had a GCWR of 12500, the 88 14500, I was going down the road tween 14 and 15K lbs total.
Reality is, the given chassis no matter the motor will handle a given trailer wt. A bigger motor will usually allow better performance, more gears in the tranny, along with a larger split tween low and highest gears will help, along with closer splits in the gears if comparing two of the same rigs, with same motor, but one say the NV5600 6 sp manual vs the NV4500 5 sp. 1st and the top two gears are the same ratio. But the 6 sp splits the differences tween 1st 5.64 and direct. So at 2500 rpms lets say, you are "should" be able to go faster with the 6 sp if you can not hold direct, ie 1.34 vs 1.65 or there abouts in the ratio lower than direct.
The above is basically whey the 88 with a 454 gas 3sp TH400 did not do as well as the slightly lower HP, same torque 6.5TD with a NV4500. Better gears in the trans, so it was a better puller, despite the 2000 lb lower GCWR. Now if the 454 had the 5 sp too, might have been a different story considering there was 50 hp different. An auto version of the 6.5 would have had the same GCWR as the 88. BUT< it still would not have done as well towing as the manual!
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/19/10 07:46pm |
Towing
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RE: Why doesn't GVWR = front + rear GAWR ? White lies ?
The difference tween the F250 and 350 dually will be tire/rim/spring capacity. Pure plain and simple on that one, especially for the GRAWR.
Now as far as why does the GVWR not add up to the sum of the axels. "NO ONE" has been able to explain that one. I personally do not care what the door sticker GVWR says, as my licensed wt is 12K, not the 11400 on the door, I could license my rig at 14K and still be legal at 14K. So when it comes to the wt police in the scale houses, and little white vans pulling you over with jump scales, all they care about is you are under you "paid for license". WIth that in mind, some states do take the GAWR's and you need to be under those. But the GVWR that is on the placard, is pretty much a mute point from a police standpoint.
There are some on here that like to flame folks for being over ANY number, others realize that some of the numbers for what ever reason, this is one, that do not make sense if you will.
My dump truck, the GVWR equals the axel limits, as do most trucks over class 5 in nature. But class 4-5 are some GVWR"s equal the axel totals, others like the F450, equal something less. The DOT class 3 ie 1 ton and under, almost 99% of the trucks, the GVWR equals anything from 1-2% less than the axel totals, to like my dually, almost 15% less.
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/19/10 03:19pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: heavy GVWR towing, at what speeds do you do?
That is about right for speeds and RPM's. You might find that slowing the rpm to 2600 when pulling hills is a bit more enjoyable when you can not hold the gear above. Yeah you go a bit slow, but this leaves you with some acceleration if you need it vs at max r the engine wants to pull. THis is how I ran my old 96 GM 6.5TD and my 92 Navistar dumptruck with an IDI 7.3. My dmax with 300+ ponies does not seem to care what I pull at, but I find around 2700 when pulling my 12K equipment trailer is about right, but I am one gear, and 10 mph taller/faster than the 185HP motors in the GM and navistar.
As far as the truck handling a 14K trailer, not an issue, I usually figure about 2x the GRAWR for max trailer before the "tail wags the dog" if you will. Your rig should have at least a 7500 GRAWR< if not closer to 8500-9000 lbs. Reality is, that puts you in the 17-18K range, so at 14K you are at about 70-80% max for the chassis. Power wise, well, that is another story. Also, you did not say the % grades you were on, if 6-9% those speeds are pretty good, if 2-4% a bit slow, but still not bad. Some of your speed ability will also depend upon the trailer design. An aerodynamic rig will always pull easier than a big box!
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/19/10 08:14am |
Towing
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RE: Undersized tow vehicles
If you think about it, it's no more dangerous to the driver or others ,than someone on a cell phone.
I talk on my cell phone, whilst texting (I have AT&T) AND drive 80mph while over GVWR. So if I were you, I would stay in the slow lane!!! :EHope you have life insurance , or grow up some day.
Me thinks he is having some fun with you, altho you may not be taking it that way!
This thread may also be as mentioned earlier, ready for the vet to come in and attempt to save this dead horse too.
I will admit, the ONLY wt police or equal I worry about, are the ones in the little white vans locally, with blue lights on the top, with jump scales in the van, that make sure I am under the Federal bridge law limits, which is 20K per axle, 34k per tandem, and as an RV'r, I am not over those numbers, so reality is, I and everyone else on this forum, are legal! You can be under manufactures recommended ratings, and still be unsafe if loaded incorrectly, bald tires, texting or on the phone, distracted by something on the radio, kids in the back seat........need I go on?
I should also go look at the videos too, but another day.............
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/18/10 08:34am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Difference in Tow ratings between TT and Fifth Wheels
"ANYBODY" look a the hitch that GM supplies for a ball mount? you will see the max limit is 12K lbs, hence the 12K rating vs 14500 or what ever it is for a 5w. GM, Ford etal have had this issue going back some 20+yrs! Take a truck with a smaller than 12K rating, ie a typ half ton, and the 5w/ball mount rating is equal. Then, if you call GM and you truck does NOT HAVE a trailer hitch pkg from the factory, they tell you the tow rating is 4500 lbs or there abouts for a dmax, as that is the bumper rating.
Now for reality, as mentioned, get your rig weighed, figure out how much wt you can put on the RA before going over it capacity. I would recomend you keep this amount to no more than 5500 of the 6100 lbs rating. Otherwise you will have issues with bottoming out going over, thru speed bumps, dips in the road etc.
There were also many many folks when GM first came out with the DA combo that bought 12-14K trailers, pulled like a banshee, BUT, almost ALL with 2500's were trading in there rigs for 3500 duallies due to bottom out issues, and a slightly overloaded RA.
Remember, 20-25% of the total trailer wt will be hitch wt, to be carried by the truck. So a 12K trailer will have upwards of 3000lbs on the RA. TOO MUCH! empty the RA will be about 2200-2400 lbs on it, leaving you with about 3500 to play with, including hitch, people etc. A ball mount on the other hand, will have 10-15% of the total in HW< giving you a max with no issues usually of 14K lbs behind the rig.
marty
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blt2ski
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03/17/10 08:53am |
Towing
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RE: Towing with Tacoma - Bad Idea?
A lot of folks also forget about aerodynamics when pulling too. "IF" the trailer you are looking at is rounded in the front vs a box, it will pull easier. IE an airstream at 8000lbs will pull easier than a typical "Fleetwood" with corrogated aluminum sides at 6000lbs, and a smooth fiberglass sidewalled fleetwood at 6500lbs will tow easier than the 6K aluminum sided version.
1000lbs of wt is equal to an additional 2-3 sq ft of frontal area.
Other issues, do you pull only at sealevel to say 3-5000' elevation, and mostly level ground, the pulling at the limit of a smaller motor may not be so bad. BUT< if you pull a lot of 10-15+% grades, 5000'+ elevation, a smaller motor at limits, even a BIG motor at its limit will have issues! You will slow down.
From a safety standpoint, I look at the GRAWR times two for max trailer behind a rig. Also use the WB max trailer length, BUT, I will admit, not sure this is perfect, as it is generic, I feel it is for lighter rigs, heavier susension rigs can increase a bit, 5w's you can go a bit longer too.
With this in mind, will said toyota pull the trailer. Yes it will. Will you enjoy it? not sure, I've pulled a lot with what folks call underpowered rigs, and frankly, no issues, you just know you have to slow down on hills, rev the motor a bit in lower gears. find a RPM that the motor likes going up hills, and go that rpm/speed. Look around and smell/look at the flowers/wildlife on the side of the road!
Ive also had rigs that were rated at 16K lbs, could not go up a 20% grade at 12K lbs, yet the rig with an 8500 gcwr/8600 gvwr at 12K, went up the hill! So a BB V8 is not the end all be all of towing. sometimes the smaller 6cyl motors, with the correct trans, axel gearing etc will do more than the BIG motors!
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/17/10 08:38am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Navistar to build a class 4-5 truck
Actually, a number of rigs are built with a rear axle that does not drive, along with one, BUT, THey are usually tags or drop axels on bus's. That rig would still be classified as a 4x2 from what I under stand. Drop and tag axels in the nomenclature being used here do not get put into the equation. Altho I have heard of 4, 5, 6, and 7 axle single dump/cement trucks, but the base is still a 6x4, with the 4th+ axels typically being drop axels.
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/16/10 09:12am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Family of 6: Which TV to buy?
The other issue with the chaining up in snow, since this item does not add a lot of wt to the RA, is even with chains, you may not have the traction to pull a trailer thru snow and ice, having had that issue with my dumptruck empty one time in snow a couple of years ago.
I'll agree with Bryan, in that it is too bad some will not look at items like this, and realize they are safe, make sense for some etc. This option should be a good way to realize a neat time with family.
Not sure in my shoes, I would do this device, with my family, chosen trailer, pulling in the snow to snoqualmie on a weekly basis etc. BUT< I will not do the "I do not want to be on the same road except on the other side of the state/country you are in" comment. I will tow behind or beside you with this!
Good luck in your adventure with the hubby and kids.
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/15/10 10:29pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Navistar to build a class 4-5 truck
hmmmm, not to throw more fuel on the fire, but a 6x4 to me is a tandem driven rear axel truck, with NO front drive axel. A 6x6 is a tandem drive/driven rear and a driving front axel. The only 4x4 to me is a double axel, front a rear are driven, whether or not the rear has duals or single tires/wheels does not matter. It is basically as mentioned, the axel ends that are counted.
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/15/10 03:42pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Family of 6: Which TV to buy?
Melanie,
There was a thread in this section regarding this items with in the last year. Altho I am recalling closing it for some odd reason. BUT< with that in mind, there were 3-6 folks that used them and liked them for various and sundry reasons. The ones with the 16" wheels vs 15" wheels, seemed to have better reviews. There were 2 maybe 3 brands, one was better recived than the other(s).
You may want to search for it, or start a new post in the 5w or towing or here, and see what responses you get if you have not made up you mind on the hitch version, ALtho it appears as you have from what I can tell.
marty
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blt2ski
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03/15/10 03:39pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2011 Duramax 397/765
Thanks for bailing me out, hone eagle.
Now, can somebody explain the 580 number for 5R110 in relation to the 6.4L with 650 ft-lbs? Seems like it would come up short if that were the numbers.
OTOH, maybe it's like weight ratings - engineers design it and make a recommendation and then the bean counters maximize it for sales value.
The other that could be happening, is like GM, they use a 2.05 converter for the gas rigs, and a 1.73 for the dmax, so the multiplication is smaller for the diesel at 640 getting to the 1100 lbs or what ever it is.
A few ways to go about it.
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/14/10 11:09pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2011 Duramax 397/765
Hone eagle,
I believe, but do not quote me, the GM transmissions have a similar rating behind the 60 in the 4l60/80/85e transmissions, the 6l90E has more torque input/output available too. Not sure if the 60 means say 600 lbft like the140 in the ford numbers or not.
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/13/10 09:26am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2011 Duramax 397/765
home eagle.
Are you asking if a given trans, say the ally 1000, has a max torque it can take? or equal capacity. At one time the limit was 540 lb ft........now we are at what almost 800! 19500 for GVWR and 26000 for GCWR. Then 1.73 to 2.05 TC converters available, with the 1.73 last I checked used with a dmax, 2.05 with a BB 8.1.
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/12/10 07:13pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2WD vs 4WD in Snow
As the old saying goes, look at the laws! When I was pulling my TT up to the local ski area, if the sign said chains required on rigs over 10K lbs, I put them on. Even tho I had a 4wd. I have had issues pulling a trailer even with chains. My dumptruck had to little wt on the axels, had to remove the bobcat and move around the corner, then put bobcat back on, then drove off!
I've also gone down and up my share of 9-12% grades with TT and equipment trailer in tow. Around here in Washington, chains are legal. If not, you would not get around in the snow, nor would you "stop" on many of our hills. Downtown Seattle most of the grades going up and down from the water front are 10-15, with some like Queen Anne ave at 18% for half a mile. Just because you have 4wd does not mean you will go up, well, you might make it up, but coming down, 4wd does not help.
For those area's back east, and mid west, I can see generally speaking how metal traction devices would not be required. as it is pretty flat. But here in the west. the snow is usually 25-33F temps, very wet, a big void tire or chains are needed to get around many times.
I will not pull a trailer with out chains when it is that icy etc. 4wd or rwd! May times i would chain up around here, just driving my truck. So I can stop when need be.
marty
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blt2ski
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03/12/10 02:01pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2011 Duramax 397/765
30.1
30MPG +
2011 SD
I see evidence of 26.717 mpg's NOT 30.1. Even 26 is impressive!! But like everyone else the 30.1 mpg's will be reported, and as we all know there is a reason it is called the "lie-o-meter", but everyone still quotes it....probably like the dyno numbers
I got those mpg's..........................
Downhill with a tail wind! and a blue moon over my right shoulder! BUT I got them!:B:B:B:B
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/12/10 08:18am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Question for gm 3500 dually owners about tire monitors
So does this mean the ubiquitous tire gauge is no more?!?!?!?!? dang it!:(:(:(
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/11/10 07:38am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2WD vs 4WD in Snow
hmmmmm, do not tow in snow or ice? how many of them BIG rigs do I see traveling over the local pass while skiing on the interstate? Not sure how many times I and upwards of 150 others in various and sundry RV's of all sorts had them parked in different ski area's in the NW. About the only rv not seen on any given weekend was a tent trailer or other soft sided rig. %w's ranging from small no slides to 3-4 slide rigs, travel trailers like me, from no to slide times. bed campers, Type A, B and C Motor homes........
As far a 2wd vs 4wd......well, if and where legal, a good set of chains will out do a 4wd alone in most conditions, especially if on the hwy. Otherwise if you have to off road it as some do, then 4wd and chains may be needed. I used to chain up on ave 1-2 times to come home while using my TT as a ski hut, that was more for the downhill leg than the uphill! ALong with the SP had chains required when over 10K lbs......or if caught, my wallet was lightened up to the tune of a couple bens.......chains do not take that long to put on!
marty
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blt2ski
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03/10/10 10:38pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Tundra or 1 Ton Dually? Tundra??!!
So lets see, we need a BIG twuck to stop a trailer when the trailer brakes go out, so what do we need to stop a BIG twuck when the twuck brakes go out pulling a trailer? A BIG twailer?!?!?!?!?!?!
Frankly, the argument that you need a truck to stop a trailer when those brakes goes out is mute. As at least in my state, washington, if pulled over and the SP wants to figure out whom has brakes enough to stop the load, you are told with electric brakes to hold the brake control lever, or the SP pulls the eplug for the trailer out, and has you slowly drive forward in 1st gear, if the trailer brakes do not hold or stay locked, you are sent to the side of the road to get the brakes fixed, or the trailer is hauled to a shop on a flat bed.
The reality is, the truck brakes stop the truck, the trailer brakes stop the trailer, so a lighter truck can pull and control a bigger trailer to a degree, but it is still the mass of the trailer if over about 2-2.5x the grawr of the twuck, will twailer wag said twuck!
ANy way, not sure this made sense. but if someone in a toyota wants to pull a BIG multi slide toy hauler, there is nothing illegal about it, I may not want to be on the same road as him, but there is nothing illegal about it!
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/07/10 12:05pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Not so fixed it seems
I would not pay $120 for a brake fluid change, BUT, if the fluid is dirty, "CHANGE IT" having been there done that on a few rigs, if you leave it too long, you will be replacing ALL the rubber parts of the system. The newer brake fluids for what ever reason, collect water better than older versions, and will need to be changed upon occasion. My old 96 CC it was every 50K or 2 yrs like clock work!
Marty
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blt2ski
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03/07/10 09:01am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: NEED ADVICE PLEASE
^^^ "keep up or do better than a dmax"
Man oh man... you are gonna have the DP down on you now. :)
I'm outta here!
You think?!?!?!?!
Says the person with a dmax in the sig, Along with three other 4 other D rigs!:B:B:B:B:B
marty
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blt2ski
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03/06/10 09:08am |
Towing
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