dougsee3
Calgary AB
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Joined: 08/07/2005
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lrak wrote:8iron wrote:CaLBaR wrote:
I never said that my tongue weight changes just that some of the tongue weight transfers to the trailer axles and a bit to the front axle. Even in the link 300lbs of the tongue weight is transfered to the trailer. That means that there is 300 lbs less weight on the truck hence 300 lbs less taking up payload.
Using full tongue weight to figure out the payload capacity is conservative. You really need to weigh your fully loaded combo.
If the tongue weight never changes why are we being conservative by using the full tongue weight?
Hypothetical situation with round numbers -
Lets say tongue weight is 1000lbs. When you put that weight far behind the rear axle you not only add 1000lbs to the rear axle, but also move some weight from the front axle to the rear axle. The rear axle becomes the pivot point in a see-saw. You've added a total of 1000lbs to the vehicle but that is +1200lbs to the rear axle and -200lbs from the front axle.
When you hookup the WD bars, you move 400lbs of the 1200lbs added to the rear axle (200 pounds you moved front to rear + 200lbs of tounge weight) to the front axle.
You used the trailer for leverage to transfer the 400lbs forward. Lets say you had to push down with 300lbs of force on the trailer axle to move the 400lbs of weight from the rear to the front axle of the truck. That 300lbs is now resting on the trailer, not the truck.
The 1000lb tounge weight is distributed 200lbs on the front axle, 500lbs on the rear axle, and 300lbs on the trailer axles. So you've really used 700lbs of payload with your 1000lb tounge weight. An even bigger benefit is that you only added 500lbs instead of 1200lbs to the rear axle so your headlights aren't pointing towards the sky.
You have to spend some time at a scale. What you will find is all you can transfer is 20 to 60 lbs to the TT, possibly a little more if the TT has a big hitch weight eg. 1400 to 1500 lbs.
As the WD bars are only pulling from 20" to 30" from the ball hitch point, and the TT axles are 15 to 20' away you can only transfer a small amount to the TT as most of the WD power will be returned to the TV.
2005 2500 Avalanche
2004 30' Terry Quantum 290FLS
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Calgary Alberta
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lrak
MA
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Joined: 11/03/2006
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dougsee3 wrote:You have to spend some time at a scale. What you will find is all you can transfer is 20 to 60 lbs to the TT, possibly a little more if the TT has a big hitch weight eg. 1400 to 1500 lbs.
As the WD bars are only pulling from 20" to 30" from the ball hitch point, and the TT axles are 15 to 20' away you can only transfer a small amount to the TT as most of the WD power will be returned to the TV.
As I said hypothetical round numbers.
I don't see how the length of the WD bars are the deciding factor in how much gets pushed back to the trailer axles. The distances between the hitch and rear axle, wheelbase, and ball to trailer wheel distance can make a HUGE difference in the amount transmitted back to the trailer wheels.
With your relatively long trailer and relatively short wheelbase it might be 20 to 60 lbs. A short wheelbase with long trailer and you'd be looking a several dozen pounds of force on the trailer tires. If you look at a long wheelbase with short heavy trailer, you could be looking at several hundred pounds of force on the trailer tires.
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Keith99RS
Suffield, CT
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Joined: 11/14/2005
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I think the OP might want to hit the scales with his 250/2500. That is a lot of stuff for any truck. The step up to a 250/2500 is usually not all that significant. Without hard numbers for the new TV one could conceivably see all he did was go from 400lbs over on one truck, to near maxed out on another.
BTW to fuel the WD debate has anyone looked at their WD head and seen the tow ratings the give? There are two. One is for with no WD, the other is with WD. SO if WD had no effect on axle, payload or hitch weight why is there two ratings?
Smoke 05 Titan SE CC 4X4
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fairhaven
Everson, WA
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Keith99RS..Actually the max payload on my 2008 Super Duty is just over 2800lbs. This gives me almost 1000lbs more payload. So, even with all our stuff I still have almost 600lbs of payload left. A few more comments. I have gone to certified scales and all my weights are true and accurate. The pass through storage compartment, as I stated before, has chairs, tables, my hammock, and assorted other stuff. The storage under the rear bunks (small door) has containers with lights, hoses, tiki torches, picnic table covers (tabletop and benches), leveling blocks, 2 bottle jacks, wheels chocks, and assorted other stuff. I did much research on bike carriers for the rear of trailers and quite simply I found no product that others did not have problems with either the carrier or rear trailer bumper. It is much more secure with a receiver welded to the front and a standard bike carrier there. I'm the guy you see with the tiki torches burning at night, awning lights, outside cook stove (dual propane burner), Baby Q, numerous bikes & chairs & tables, and sound asleep in my fold down hammock beside the nice warm fire! Yea it's a lot of stuff we take but darn if we don't have a great time. Finally, again in my original post I stated that half ton trucks will work just fine for some. I loved my GMC Vortex Max. However, I was one of those who was looking at the tow capability and did not take a hard look at the payload capacity. My family loves to fish and it's the boat that makes the half ton not work...for me. If it works for you great.
2010 Keystone Cougar 30BHS
2008 Ford F250 4x4 Super Duty Crew, 6.4 Power Stroke, 3.73
Myself (Bob) Retired (25 Years USAF)
Tami (Wife)
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Nick-5 (Our rotty/shepard mix)
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clewsew
Oklahoma
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Joined: 10/30/2008
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In my opinion why have a TT if you have to have a 3/4 or 1 ton anyway. At that point you might as well have a 5th wheel with the extra head room and such...but that again is my opinion and it is pretty much worthless to any one but me... 
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RustySocket
SW Washington
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Joined: 03/02/2005
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clewsew wrote:In my opinion why have a TT if you have to have a 3/4 or 1 ton anyway. At that point you might as well have a 5th wheel with the extra head room and such...but that again is my opinion and it is pretty much worthless to any one but me...
because I can't carry my motorcycle in the bed of the truck with the fiver hitced up.
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jopes
Where the Antelope play
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Before we got our TT, we were towing about 9k on a flat bed trailer. We went straight for a F250, 7.3L diesel and honestly we cannot be happier. Not so much of the added power and added weight capacity, but more so the added braking.
in my opinion just because they rate the half tons with higher towing capacity than they ever did before your still stuck with a half ton truck. Just too many parts on them are light duty for me to trust they will be safe after many, many miles of towing.
2001 Ford F-250 PSD, 6spd, 4x4 waiting for something to pull.
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MeandMyLabs
Clinton, Illinois
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I think in most cases, you cannot have too much truck. That has been discussed in previous threads on this forum. I also feel that the match of your tow vehicle and trailer are very important, but the numbers (GUIDELINES) published by the manufacturer are general figures and do not allow for intended driving terrain or style. If one is planning on traveling across the country as quickly as possible, then a larger tow vehicle is a necessity. If you are a driver who is intending on pulling in a geographic area away from mountains or high altitude and do not have a impatient attitude, one can then match a tow vehicle which will be SLIGHTLY mismatched and still achieve excellent results.
I see this scenario practiced all of the time in central Illinois because of relatively flat terrain. That being said, common sense must prevail. There are so many variables to this topic that it is impossible to arrive at a definitive answer which applies to all.
Bottom line... BE CAREFUL AND BE SAFE for the benefit of you, your passengers and other drivers. We do not want to push the limits too far. RVing is supposed to be fun, not nerve racking IMO.
2009 Jayco 19BH
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PopBeavers
San Jose, CA
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Joined: 03/19/2005
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clewsew wrote:In my opinion why have a TT if you have to have a 3/4 or 1 ton anyway. At that point you might as well have a 5th wheel with the extra head room and such...but that again is my opinion and it is pretty much worthless to any one but me...
For us, a TT makes a lot more sense that a FW.
DW has bad knees and can not climb more that two steps.
Our TT folds down for storage in the garage, saving over $100 per month in storage fees.
Were we go, anything longer than a 20 foot truck towing a 20 trailer may not fit.
The motorcycles are in the back of the truck. The do not make a toy hauler that will fold down to store in my garage.
Both the 1500HD and the 2500HD can tow the trailer and carry the motorcycles. I did not have to spend a lot of extra money on a diesel that would only be driven 5k to 7k miles per year.
Wayne in San Jose
TV1:2002 Chevy 1500HD 4wd Crew Cab,Valley Odyssey brake ctlr,McKesh mirrors
TV2:2008 GMC 2500HD long bed 4wd Crew Cab,GMC brake ctlr,GMC mirrors
TT:Trailmanor 2720
Honda 2000
Yamaha WR250R,Polaris Sportsman 700 X2,Polaris Scrambler 500
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PopBeavers
San Jose, CA
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MeandMyLabs wrote:I think in most cases, you cannot have too much truck.
I can park my 1500HD in the garage, but not the 2500HD. But they both get parked in the driveway anyway.
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