DSteiner51
Wooster, Oh
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hotpepperkid wrote:For all you So CA Ford diesel guys there is a club. SOCAPS In the spring they generally have a meeting at Sunrise Ford and you can dino your truck for a small fee. For the 7.3's you only get HP at the rear wheels and for you 6.0 people you can also get torque.
hpk
You have to have torque to get HP so you should get torque for the 7.3 too or you can't get HP. Torque X RPM/5252=HP
D. Steiner
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jauguston
Bellingham, WA
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Something wrong with the software the dyno is using if they can't give torque on anything that is on the roller.
Jim
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hotpepperkid
Chino Hills CA
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jauguston wrote:Something wrong with the software the dyno is using if they can't give torque on anything that is on the roller.
Jim
There is a wire they clip to and on the 7.3 it all but impossiable to get to. On the 6.0 its on top and in an easy to get to wire loom. Anyway that their story.
hpk
2000 Ford F-350 SRW 4X4 PSD Jayco Super Lite 29.5RKS (31') 5th wheel 50 gal X-ferflow in the bed tank. Banks big exhaust and Stinger kit.
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AZLugz
Mesa AZ
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skylos wrote:Forgive my naivete, how can you quantify 'overloaded' in that sense?
Too much weight for my tires or suspension?
I have a 2007 toyota tacoma that I have overloaded on a number of occasions - both in just bed-weight and in tow-weight. The trailers get wobbly, the truck suspension bottoms out on moderate bumps, and the clutch shudders/smokes.
The F250 doesn't bottom out, doesn't feel wobbly, and the clutch takes the torque of starting that fiver on a hill with only a hint of chatter. None at all normally.
As for horsepower to weight ratio, that just means I go slower. As long as my clutch and drive train are handling it adequately, I'm not convinced that I am overloaded from a power-weight ratio perspective. I don't see a sign vertically (tire compression/suspension stiffness) that indicates overload there either.
It goes up the hill. Its good, right? 
Just because you can hook it up and pull it, does not mean you are not overloaded. You have a manufacturers maximum tow limit for you truck for both conventional trailer and 5th/goose connect trailer. The more stuff on your truck, the less your capacity ex:4x4 will reduce you max tow weight because there is more weight built into the truck. You may have the same engine and tranny, but other components are not the same and the manufacturer determined the capacity for safety
If you were to have a serious wreck and it was deemed your fault, the other parties could file a civil lawsuit against you for damages as you exceeded the capabilities of your tow vehicle.....just an example but overweight towing is not a good idea.
Tons of people on the road using F250's and C2500's pulling bit trailers are overloaded based on the manufacturer. My F350 is only rated at 15,300 with the diesel because it is a long bed crew cab Lariet 4x4 and all that stuff adds weight
As far as speed up hills, I can roll all the hills from Flag to Phoenix and not drop under 55 but my 5ver is a lot lighter and I have the twin turbo 6.4.
* This post was
edited 07/01/09 04:29pm by an administrator/moderator *
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DSteiner51
Wooster, Oh
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hotpepperkid wrote:jauguston wrote:Something wrong with the software the dyno is using if they can't give torque on anything that is on the roller.
Jim
There is a wire they clip to and on the 7.3 it all but impossiable to get to. On the 6.0 its on top and in an easy to get to wire loom. Anyway that their story.
hpk
If they can't get torque then there is absolutely NO way they can get Horsepower. Something smells really fishy here.
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jauguston
Bellingham, WA
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My thoughts also.
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DSteiner51
Wooster, Oh
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AZLugz wrote:
If you were to have a serious wreck and it was deemed your fault, the other parties could file a civil lawsuit against you for damages as you exceeded the capabilities of your tow vehicle.....just an example but overweight towing is not a good idea.
I got news for you. It doesn't matter if one is over the manufacturers weight or not, if one is at fault it doesn't matter if you run a stop sign, speed, talk on the cell phone etc. you can have a civil lawsuit against you.
Instead of attempting to use scare tactics why don't you just use facts and forget the bull?
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skylos
Issaquah, WA
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AZLugz wrote:skylos wrote:Forgive my naivete, how can you quantify 'overloaded' in that sense?
Too much weight for my tires or suspension?
I have a 2007 toyota tacoma that I have overloaded on a number of occasions - both in just bed-weight and in tow-weight. The trailers get wobbly, the truck suspension bottoms out on moderate bumps, and the clutch shudders/smokes.
The F250 doesn't bottom out, doesn't feel wobbly, and the clutch takes the torque of starting that fiver on a hill with only a hint of chatter. None at all normally.
As for horsepower to weight ratio, that just means I go slower. As long as my clutch and drive train are handling it adequately, I'm not convinced that I am overloaded from a power-weight ratio perspective. I don't see a sign vertically (tire compression/suspension stiffness) that indicates overload there either.
It goes up the hill. Its good, right?
Just because you can hook it up and pull it, does not mean you are not overloaded. You have a manufacturers maximum tow limit for you truck for both conventional trailer and 5th/goose connect trailer. ... the manufacturer determined the capacity for safety
Did they? Or did they determine it to limit their legal liability?
AZLugz wrote:overweight towing is not a good idea.
I think it more accurate to say that overweight towing carries with it risk factors that must be considered when deciding to do so.
AZLugz wrote:Tons of people on the road using F250's and C2500's pulling big trailers are overloaded based on the manufacturer.
The way you phrase this indicates the possibility that the manufacturer may be incorrectly downrating the towing capacity due to considerations beyond specifically the capabilities of the truck.
For instance, 'power to weigh ratio' mandates dropping towing capacity by a pound for every pound you add to the vehicle. That is only peripherally related to safety. But 'stability against the weight of the trailer', on the other hand, is a relative calculation - driving a heavier truck means I'm going to be more stable against the pressure of any particular weight of trailer.
AZLugz wrote:As far as speed up hills, I can roll all the hills from Flag to Phoenix and not drop under 55 but my 5ver is a lot lighter and I have the twin turbo 6.4.
Flagstaff, Arizona — Elevation: 6,910 FT (2,106 M)
Phoenix, Arizona — Elevation: 1,117 FT (340 M)
I can't say as I'm particularly surprised. Admittedly there is an upslope on the way out of verde valley over the pass towards phoenix, but on the overall, you're not talking about an 'uphill run'. I can drive from Kingman to Flagstaff which is a great deal more uphill
Kingman, Arizona — Elevation: 3,333 FT
And a good 80% of the time be moving 55 or higher even with my possibly overloaded 1994 F250.
Now, finally, regarding overloading and what i can do about it without spending a spectacular amount of money on a ridiculous truck. (your truck, dear reader, is of course excluded from this assessment even if its an F650 supercrewcab quadturbo with racing stripes)
1. Stopping.
1a. The brake controller (freshly replaced with a Tekonsha P3) must be in good shape and operational
1b. The electric brake actuators must apply evenly and strongly.
1b. The brake shoes should be in good shape
2. Rolling
2a. The wheel bearings must be regularly checked and maintained
2b. The tires must be recent and in good shape.
2c. The tire pressure must be closely monitored and maintained.
2d. The trailer suspension must be in good shape (no broken springs)
By Ensuring that the trailer is in good operational shape for stopping and rolling I will compensate for most of the risk encountered by technically (per manufacturer conservative spects) overloading the remarkably sturdy F250.
David
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AZLugz
Mesa AZ
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Well lets see, if I am talking about the road between Flag and PHX, I prolly did it both ways. NM, its not worth an opinion here as you get jabbed in the butt for it or the mods change or delete it, guess I have not been here long enough to have an opinion.
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skylos
Issaquah, WA
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Well, sure AZLugz, both ways would be expected, But that's not what you *said*.
Admittedly, the blind aherence to arbitrary declarations is a pet peeve of mine, so I'll poke you in the butt for that because I have opinions too.
I just see a big difference between the arbitrary cover-our-ass declaration "The Ford Company cannot warrant the operation of this vehicle beyond 10,000 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight at expected highway speeds"
vs. something more like
"Towing is a complex system involving not only the vehicle, its loading, brakes, suspension, and tires but also the loading, brakes, suspension, and tires of the trailer, and also the attachment system between them. Quantifying the safety margins of such a complex system in all but the vaguest sense is outside the capability of any rating statement on a vehicle"
It would be really cool if the ratings were expressed as graphs for each parameter (weight, tire factors, suspension factors, distribution factors) with a relationship for risk assessment. But I don't have that - heck, I can't even find waht the gvwr for my truck IS - so I'll hedge my bets by making sure my equipment is operating *and feeling* right, get advice from people and hear what they think of what I have to say (even if they don't like hearing it), and pragmatically speaking - in the end with my hands on the wheel - trust my best judgement about how fast it feels I can safely go.
Its better to have a truck that can move my house at 45mph free and clear than it is to have a pile of debt on a truck that can move my house at 75. Long as I'm moving, I'm gonna get there eventually.
Skylos
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